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Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

I notice in myself a tendency to prefer genuine raving lunatics who are self-deceived as well or at least sincere and sincerely confused in my imagination as compared to people who come off as more self-controlled and sly or organized and purposeful about what they are saying and doing with an agenda to be a leader or whatever. Like if I were to imagine two characters, and one is like a rambling and shambling looney foaming at the mouth and one is like a slick writer and sage type and business-like and efficient, I might tend to trust the guy with their pants around their skinny ankles for some reason.


How do people come to trust various Prophets, Messengers, Leaders?
 
Those are song lyrics that are a reference to Milton's Paradise Lost, and they don't have anything to do with being nice to people who spew crass bigotry.

Those are cool lyrics! I don't know what I wrote though that was untrue though about my feelings regarding Persians, if anything, I was being bigoted against myself, by revealing how I have a genuine sort of disturbed reaction towards Persian people even though some of the Persian ancestry people I find attractive (even some of the males, some cute boys among them), but when talking to them, I've found the males coming out of the culture to be pretty weird, or chauvinistic. What, am I supposed to not make observations and have reactions and just pretend that every culture and tendency doesn't exist? Have you heard rap music? Would it be some problem if someone said "you know, I don't really like certain types of rap music because they are constantly talking about b-t-c-s and hos and sex acts and are degrading themselves and their communities for a few bucks or whatever and spreading chauvinistic type rubbish into everyones ears? Think about it, instead of fighting and reacting so fast, since the Politically Correct Borderline Personality is not always really working in line with the sensible reality or truth.

I didn't say something as totally inane (and I would too! so keep an eye out!) that rap music is bad because of the melanin or whatever or pigmentation of the singers. I find African people to be attractive, so its not an issue, and who can deny the beauty of a booty bouncing, butt I don't like the way some of the songs talk about women or sex for example and I don't like the culture being promoted or ideas being promoted through some of the repeating and brainwashing type of lyrics, see? The lyrics you chose are much nicer than "suck it ho, ho, ho, Merry Bitshmass".

So, even though I kid people around by saying how racist I am (I hate all humanity, so I'm not really racist probably), I was not saying that there was any problem with the Persian skin tone, and I even said they look nice, and I didn't say it was their genetics that make them unappealing to me, but my interactions with materials coming out of Persia and connected to the Persian culture, which has been chauvinistic from long ago, see all their writings about women and "whores" and their sexual lusting from the Zoroastrian times, and then their Islamic additions (they may have been the ones obsessed with the number 72 and introducing the 72 virgins thing even), and how there are some major people in the porn industry who have backgrounds coming out of the Persian culture and are famous for that open shirt, hairy chest, gold necklace look (among others) we all know as the stereotype of the untrustworthy sleeze-bag. That is a problem with the culture apparently, stemming from generations of writing and influence. Women in the Persian culture now are often even chopping off their noses (like some Jewish people also) and getting plastic surgery to try to meet some kind of ideal because of this chauvinistic type of culture that pervades the society since ancient times. So when someone comes out of that culture and background of what seems to me to be ultra-annoyingness, and says they are God's messenger, I might be just a bit more skeptical and biased about it or suspicious because of my low opinion of their background, their influences, where they are coming from, and what is behind them. That is what I was saying. I don't exclusively dislike Persia or Persian culture or Persian men, I dislike all the varieties of human cultures.

Joseph Smith and the early LDS and Mormons seemed to be racists and liars, I don't like that either or their teachings and how they say that the people have their darker skin because of some error or sin or choice before their birth where they chose not to help in the battle against evil or something ridiculous. My not liking them and thinking they are crap, does not make me racist against white people (as you probably are), because I'm not saying their dumb idiot idea comes from their lack of pigment, or even their formerly drunken inferior farmer genes, but rather from their disgusting culture and cultural milieu or whatever.

So, if you read carefully and not like a Borderline Personality Disorder type of fighter ready to fight about it, you'll see maybe where I'm coming from not liking the Persian culture, and its a matter of taste (and not being a lying chauvinist). They are also not fun for women to deal with to this day for the most part because of their weird chauvinistic type flirty pushiness. Arab men also seem to be highly annoying people who bother me a lot, its their culture, its not even the Qur'an doing it to them (it was probably the Persians though).

I am myself related to them, I'm an Aryan, my ancestors were the same people, dealing with the same people, though they called my ancestors evil magicians (maybe they were right), but the thing is, they have long had an argument against Ahriman and Indra and Shiva, have long spread their superstitions and Obsessive Compulsive weirdness across the whole world through Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Manichaeism, their versions of Islam and Islamic traditions, and maybe now its off-shoots with these groups from the 1800s. They have lied about God for thousands upon thousands of years, attributing to what they consider an evil opposing power the attributes of God and reality, and then making what seem to be lies again about Allah when they got a hold of that new (for them) name, and started producing all these so-called Prophets as well, like Zoroaster, like Mani, like their various chosen leaders and cultists, and then like the Bab and Baha'u'llah even, or the Ismaeli guys. One after another, from out of this place, seems to come every kind of Messiah (including Cyrus, who was called Messiah in the Bible I think or something).

So, I think they can be sexy looking, the babes can be hot, but their culture sucks, and I'm friends with Lizards and they hate Lizards and have been killing my buddies for thousands of years, so they can go screw themselves and their crappy culture and ideas, because Lizards rule and are innocent!

I can go on and on about how rotten so many of the initially nice seeming things coming out of Persia seem to be, because they've been up to no good (and according to others, up to tons of great good) for thousands of years of human history. In all their justice and virtue, they have my approval, but for all that was wicked and wrong in my view, they have my scorn and disapproving face:
https://anthropopper.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/ahriman_s-head-carved-in-wood-by-rudolf-steiner.jpg

Now, that isn't real racism, and a person can analyze and figure out what they think isn't quite good or right in their own opinion about a culture according to their own tastes. What kind of fool would think that absolutely everything is ok all around the world and history for all time just because people did it or their fathers did it or they have varying degrees of pigment or lack thereof which should void their responsibility from decency somehow and give them a free pass spreading trash everywhere or saying or doing anything at all they want, because.

Read this book for example:
Full text of "Witches, Whores, And Sorcerers. The Concept Of Evil In Early Iran By Satnam Mendoza Forrest, Prods Oktor Skjaervo"

So, my personal preference and taste, I simply have almost never really liked anything from Persia, down to their bland as heck food. All I like are their sexy looks, so you can give me reverse racism then maybe if you must tag me with something.

As for culture, its one of many cultures and histories I find to be troublesome and in many ways negatively influential and distorting and responsible for many troubling things even to this day. That is the the problem with lies and letting them spread, they can destroy lives and minds way far into the future even.

So, from the land of people like the Old Man on the Mountain and the Assassins and all sorts of self-proclaimed Holy Men and cult leaders, the fact that a new set of Messiahs or people proclaiming to be Prophets or whatever might be a little suspect, and one might be a little cautious also about what exactly that culture they are coming out from may have contributed to their writing or ideas, which have (in my opinion) been often not that great anyway when looked at carefully or in detail or how it may have contributed negatively to many things.

So, my reason for even mentioning that in the beginning of my writing, is to see if anyone can dispel it, to let people know where I'm coming from, how I'm biased, why I might be skeptical or resistant. Its an honesty that most people don't often show or admit to, because they are chickens probably, or just blindly trying to be PC to the point of being wrong and inaccurate and not even PC but just white-knighting until their knuckles turn black and blue.

Also the Persian accent can be annoying but I find it funny as well. Helloo Hoow Oore Yoou
 
All the Bahai people I've ever met or heard from or heard of are pretty old or middle aged, and so that seems to indicate that they came into the religion decades ago somehow, so was there some kind of big promotion going on for it during some years? What is the story behind all that and the years involved, and why are so many of the Bahai people I've seen or interacted with typically a little older or (well) past 30 currently?

What was it about this certain generation that made this group of Americans find out about the Bahai religion and join it? Are these people who grew up looking at hippies or going through the Iran Hostage Crisis thing during the Carter era or are these people who were adults watching Ronald Reagan and his talks about the One World and breaking down the wall or what is the psychological background and makeup that makes this religion the choice for people who are now 45 or 50 to almost 80?
 
I'd like to take a moment here to offer my sincere and deepest thanks to everyone who has been reading and joining in and participating as well in this thread, and have kept it very pleasant and civil as far as I'm concerned, and I've also already learned a great deal of interesting information while also getting a lot of things off my chest too, so it has been an overall pleasant experience, and its all largely thanks to all of the decent readers and contributors, as well as most people having a good degree of patience with me and the subject matter. I do hope that there will continue to be more contributions throughout this thread, questions answered, and free thinking, and genuine introspection and self-questioning and questioning everything, with the intention of growing and even facing the things that really might bother us and who we each really are this moment and why we believe whatever we believe and how it makes us certain ways seemingly.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I hope monster deck was not a typo! I am actually totally amazed about these raccoons, I love raccoons, and I'd love to see them coming along and eating. They have little hands and can totally communicate with each other and you (me), whenever I see raccoons its a treat! I don't think I've ever seen as many as you are mentioning all at once. I've seen up to maybe 6 together in a family or possibly up to 9 (fantasy of mine? I don't know, it was in Vancouver), but never 30 all at once! That would be awesome to see, and a little glimpse of heaven (or hell), but I believe the same as you, that its only right that paradise is full of all the animals living forever in peace along with us, and my worst experiences in life are basically witnessing or going through the deaths of my (animal) friends.
It was probably more than 30, but they were moving around so it was difficult to count, and I really did not want to know how many there were! :eek: Do you know how much I spend on dog food to feed all of them? Luckily we have the money. I told them last night that they were not getting any more food because they kept looking at me with those puppy dog eyes and we had already fed them several times... I should eat so well!

Yes, a little glimpse of hell for me, but I could never abandon any animal, or any human, as given I was emotionally abandoned as a child, I am very sensitive to that... That means you are stuck with me for the duration. ;)

I try to live fully in the present, because otherwise I would never survive, so I do not think about what could happen if/when more of them have babies. In that past they moved on and in one spring we only had a few of them. I doubt that will happen again, but like I said -- fully in the present -- and that goes for the cats as well. We have two older cats with kidney disease right now so all we can do is care for them as best we can and live in the moment.

I now return you to your regular channel and hopefully I will have time to answer some of your questions, maybe one at a time...
 
It was probably more than 30, but they were moving around so it was difficult to count, and I really did not want to know how many there were! :eek: Do you know how much I spend on dog food to feed all of them? Luckily we have the money. I told them last night that they were not getting any more food because they kept looking at me with those puppy dog eyes and we had already fed them several times... I should eat so well!

Yes, a little glimpse of hell for me, but I could never abandon any animal, or any human, as given I was emotionally abandoned as a child, I am very sensitive to that... That means you are stuck with me for the duration. ;)

I try to live fully in the present, because otherwise I would never survive, so I do not think about what could happen if/when more of them have babies. In that past they moved on and in one spring we only had a few of them. I doubt that will happen again, but like I said -- fully in the present -- and that goes for the cats as well. We have two older cats with kidney disease right now so all we can do is care for them as best we can and live in the moment.

I now return you to your regular channel and hopefully I will have time to answer some of your questions, maybe one at a time...
Sure, take your time! Also for the kidneys, it happened to some of our cats as well because of eating so much of the crackers and maybe not enough water, and supposedly happens to a lot of cats, and we had to bit by bit eventually get them all "fixed" (just the females), and this seemed to reduce the amount of births but then people started giving over more cats and more cats also arrived hearing about this free food fest, and yeah, it will never end, but will end maybe if you stop feeding them outside, but then this just might be the opening scenes of a horror movie and all the raccoons start invading the interior of the home, but it has a happy ending.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
if you stop feeding them outside, but then this just might be the opening scenes of a horror movie and all the raccoons start invading the interior of the home, but it has a happy ending.
That is what I am afraid of... :eek::eek::eek:

Years ago, when we did not put food out for them, a racoon dug a foot under our cat fence and came through the pet door into the house, ate and drank and left.. Luckily no cats were harmed, as there were about six male cats living downstairs at the time.

What got all this feeding the racks started is because we have two fenced areas for cats and the only way to ensure the racks do not come into those areas was to feed them on the deck. That was a long time ago and had I known what it would lead to I might have come up with a better solution.... but hindsight is 20-20 and life goes on. ;)

Like I said, i do not ever think of the future and I try not to think about the past. :( I just have to have faith that God has my back, and it is all the material world after all, so this too shall pass...
 
That is what I am afraid of... :eek::eek::eek:

Years ago, when we did not put food out for them, a racoon dug a foot under our cat fence and came through the pet door into the house, ate and drank and left.. Luckily no cats were harmed, as there were about six male cats living downstairs at the time.

What got all this feeding the racks started is because we have two fenced areas for cats and the only way to ensure the racks do not come into those areas was to feed them on the deck. That was a long time ago and had I known what it would lead to I might have come up with a better solution.... but hindsight is 20-20 and life goes on. ;)

Like I said, i do not ever think of the future and I try not to think about the past. :( I just have to have faith that God has my back, and it is all the material world after all, so this too shall pass...

Well, as far as I'm concerned, whoever feeds and cares for and genuinely loves animals, is God's agent, and is accumulating good deeds and is doing charity and kindness, and should be rewarded for their generosity and sincere heart and efforts. Whoever is mean and nasty or cruel to animals or frightening them unnecessarily or causing them suffering or anxiety, are bad people and should be punished and I expect they likely will be punished for being jerks. I think there are people who might be good to animals and their goodness to animals might be the major thing that "saves" them and their souls as compared to a person who might just pray all the time or something but does nothing good for anyone or even themselves.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
No room for questions in heaven. How will you ask ?

The above is a link to where this questioning started, but in order to prevent de-railing the thread, this thread has been created for anyone at all, especially Bahai people or anyone who deems themselves informed about Bahai or even just logical people, to contribute and think about and answer some of these questions.

The questions are as follows (but more may be brought up throughout the thread, and anyone else can also ask questions here about Bahai things or to me or whatever).

I currently do not consider myself a Bahai or follower of the Bab or Baha'u'llah, and will add that I may be somewhat prejudiced or suspicious of practically anything at all coming out of Persia and in relation to the Persian culture, all the way back through the Zoroastrian times even. The thing I dislike Persians for most, is their part in the creation and proliferation of the Hadiths. I don't like Persian people too much, even though some of the women can be good looking to me, but basically don't like anything about them at all overall usually (and also find that a lot of them might be crazy too), so that is to say I'm clearly prejudiced. At the time of the Zoroastrian things, they called the things from India demonic supposedly (naming as Daevas words like Sarva and Indra), and even said odd things about God in various ways like how they attributed to Ahriman the movement of things or change basically, which I attribute to God. Then they went on to make a big fuss about "the family of the Prophet" and mystical qualities and caste systems and blah blah blah, and they were killing lizards like crazy too, just not a fan of these people or their culture or their land or their ideas, even though they get lots of praise. Their influence on the religions, including Judaism, also seems to have been a potentially bad one as well. So, being quite hostile from the get go to this group of people, the idea of a charismatic leader coming along and making any claim, I'm already extremely skeptical, because I don't respect them at all, and already consider them liars from long ago, from the Zoroastrian times, into their Shia split times, finding their Shia traditions to be vile and obnoxious and even blasphemous, and then not being fond also of the Bahai movement either, as a kind of Westernizing suck up type movement, that is supported and funded by groups I don't like (like Zionists) to try to create some kind of trouble for Muslims (who I'm not particularly fond of either).

So, getting that out of the way, this is a great opportunity for people who are knowledgeable of the Bahai religion and history and apologetics to teach everyone who visits this thread all about the religion and put at ease their questions. It is unlikely to move me, except that the patience and courtesy and gentleness that people treat me with here in patiently answering my questions will likely leave me with the opinion that the Bahai are nice people (in fact, I already have this opinion of them, as they are decent and simple folks as far as I've seen and my family has been friends with Bahai people as well).

So to start off:

1. Why should Bab and Baha'u'llah be believed? While we're at it, why should any of these people be believed? Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Abraham, Paul, all the rest, whoever you can think of, why?

2. What significant update to Islam was required when the Muslims seem to still be functioning as Muslims along with the Qur'an.

3. Is the Qur'an to be believed, or is it a lie?

4. What are the changes to the Qur'anic laws by the Bab and to the Bab's laws by Baha'u'llah, and why was such an update necessary between these two in such an extremely small amount of time?

5. How are Bahai not just some type of Muslims?

6. Who are all the Prophets, and what is the point of calling them anything or giving them any significance if they are to be disregarded and are outdated anyway? Like, who cares about them if all that matters really is the Baha'u'llah and what Baha'u'llah says?

7. How do we know these people aren't just like any "Charismatic Cult Leader"?

8. The Mormons or the LDS Church (Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints or whatever) call their organizations leaders Prophets and have a chain of new ones leading back to Joseph Smith, then Brigham Young, and they keep updating and saying that this is the old stuff and here is the new stuff, is there any similarity to that and the Bahai thinking, and why should the Mormons not be believed and followed? They too are a wealthy organized religion with fancy looking buildings and other things.

9. What does it take to be a Bahai, and 9.2. how can one be a Bahai, and 9.3. why should one be a Bahai? 9.4. What is the expected fate of non-Bahai? 9.5. What is expected to happen to the devout Muslims? 9.6. So what then makes this addition necessary or worth the risk?

10. What is the population of the Bahai, their true number, in your estimates (taking out the nominal and not serious Bahai, but actual practitioners).

11. Please give the daily life and routine and rituals and activities of the best and most ideal Bahai person, 11.2. and if you do this, and 11.3. if not, why not? 11.4. Are you failing? 11.5. You aren't afraid or don't care much or what?

12. What is your personal story with Bahai, or if you are a Bahai, how did you come to Bahai or come to believe in it, and 12.2. what do you think of the Qur'an and 12.3. Why aren't you just a follower of the Qur'an?

13. What factor makes one or leads one to be a true Bahai and what is believed to be the factor that makes people deny it or defy it or reject it or be skeptical of it in the genuine views of the Bahai?

14. I view Bahai religion as a degradation or inferior version of Qur'anic Islam, can you clarify or correct this view and show how it might actually be an improvement on the Qur'anic religion or differs from it in such a way in its teachings and practices? I currently find the Muslims to be more devout, more physically clean, more disciplined, etc, so superior in every way to the Bahai which seems like its just a deflated and luke-warm Western pandering version of Islam.

15. What are the Bahai views on the actual detailed description of God (what is God, in detail, down to every detail you can muster up), angels, demons, jinn, whatever, the whole cosmology, the whole belief system in detail, magic, mysticism, symbols, all that you can discuss which give a clear picture of the Bahai worldview and cosmology and locations and history and bestiary and all that.

16. How can one come to respect, admire, or follow Baha'u'llah if one doesn't have much respect for any human beings, or for Baha'u'llah's supposed predecessors, or Muhammed, or Jesus, or Moses, or even God? 16.2. How much belief or practice is required to be a true Bahai or attain God's reward, and what is that Reward anyway and in return for what exactly and why?

17. What is the opposite of a Bahai (sometimes this helps clarify what a Bahai is through the example of what is not a Bahai or what the diametric opposite might be). 17.2. Who, if anyone, are the bad guys or groups, or list all the major bad guys or groups, like even Satan if Satan plays a role at all in the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

18. The statistical numbers of other groups are higher, what does this mean? Has the mission failed, or is it only getting started? It seems doubtful at this rate or with these numbers that Bahai religion will be a major force in 1000 years. 18.2. What accounts for the slaying of Bab and Baha'u'llah if these were slain (as compared to Muhammed, who was not slain, or Moses, who was not slain), and the comparatively small following of the Bahai faith as compared to variations of Islam and Christianity?

19. What are the strongest appeals and apologetics for Bahai religion and why one should follow it and perform each of the required or recommended rituals or tasks?

20. How was your mood and thought process before and after Bahai religion was taken on as your personal religion, and what aspects of it do you personally perceive as those which make the most beneficial difference in your thinking or practices?

21. What are some resources or all the best resources to read all the important or just all of the available and translated Bahai literature online, and what is the value if any of doing so, and what are the bare minimum requirements or recommendations for reading (how much does one need to know, and also if there is any stuff people should avoid reading or which when they read they become really difficult or skeptical).

22. Where is God right now, as I'm writing this, in your beliefs or understandings, and what would God think if I thought poorly of Baha'u'llah or Muhammed or something? Or even God? 22.2.What would thinking poorly of God be exactly in your opinion?

Lots of questions!

23. What is the Bahai organization hierarchy and system and who are the leaders and bosses and why?
24. Have you heard of the Ismaeli leadership structure? Can you compare it to them or the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses?

25. What aspects of your personal history and background do you think really might be responsible for your accepting Bahai religion as your religion (or rejecting it, if a non-Bahai answers).

You will never get proper response brother. Each answer will be enough for another post and each of your points should be a single thread.

One liner answers to 25 questions like this would go nowhere, and you will never get analysis but "faith statements".
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Usually when people leave a religion it's because the RELIGION is on shaky ground and they see it, then split.

But sometimes, its because they never knew much about their religion in the first place. sometimes it is for migration. Also sometimes its for a career.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well, as far as I'm concerned, whoever feeds and cares for and genuinely loves animals, is God's agent, and is accumulating good deeds and is doing charity and kindness, and should be rewarded for their generosity and sincere heart and efforts. Whoever is mean and nasty or cruel to animals or frightening them unnecessarily or causing them suffering or anxiety, are bad people and should be punished and I expect they likely will be punished for being jerks. I think there are people who might be good to animals and their goodness to animals might be the major thing that "saves" them and their souls as compared to a person who might just pray all the time or something but does nothing good for anyone or even themselves.
Well thanks, it is nice to know I am not the only one who feels this way about animals.... Many religious people do not believe animals are that important and that is owing to the fact that they believe only humans have souls and only humans are made in the image of God, but just because animals are different in kind that does not mean they do not matter or that they will not live on in spirit.... The worst kinds of people are those who believe that animals are just here just for our enjoyment. Then there are those religious people who believe that animals only exist for our spiritual growth, and that they do not exist in their own right... I could never believe that because I am connected to my cats in spirit and know they are connected to me.

It is really sad that the Bible and other scriptures do not mention animals, only humans, as if we are so great. Anyhow, at least the Baha'i Faith does stress the importance of kindness to animals even though I still think that most Baha'is overlook their place in this world because they are so focused on humans. Just my opinion.

"Briefly, it is not only their fellow human beings that the beloved of God must treat with mercy and compassion, rather must they show forth the utmost loving-kindness to every living creature. For in all physical respects, and where the animal spirit is concerned, the selfsame feelings are shared by animal and man. Man hath not grasped this truth, however, and he believeth that physical sensations are confined to human beings, wherefore is he unjust to the animals, and cruel.

And yet in truth, what difference is there when it cometh to physical sensations? The feelings are one and the same, whether ye inflict pain on man or on beast. There is no difference here whatever. And indeed ye do worse to harm an animal, for man hath a language, he can lodge a complaint, he can cry out and moan; if injured he can have recourse to the authorities and these will protect him from his aggressor. But the hapless beast is mute, able neither to express its hurt nor take its case to the authorities. If a man inflict a thousand ills upon a beast, it can neither ward him off with speech nor hale him into court. Therefore is it essential that ye show forth the utmost consideration to the animal, and that ye be even kinder to him than to your fellow man.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 158-159
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Thanks for all your interesting questions. To me, Baha’u’llah came to rid the world of injustices and promote world peace, human rights, equality and so on. There are many issues where injustices occur due to prejudices of race, religion and nationality and He taught that education was the best method to solve these problems. So for instance, instead of Black Lives Matter, we promote racial harmony. Banning racism for us is promoting the oneness of humanity.

Many people could have universal free Medicare, universal free education and employment if there was world peace because when you look at the total military budget of the world, it amounts to not billions but $trillions. Abolishing war would help eliminate poverty. Religious prejudice is also a problem because of disunity. The purpose of all religions has ever been love and harmony. The Founders and the Holy Books all teach peace and life but over time man made ideas some for ambition and greed gradually changed the religion. Which is why in every Holy Book from the Gita to Buddhist texts to Bible and Quran, mention is made of One Who will appear to renew the spirit of true religion which is love and unity. Krishna said it, so did Buddha and Christ and Muhammad.

So today, we live in a world of disunity and nuclear weapons. It’s only sensible and common sense that the world would be much safer and better off if we would establish peace, which is the main purpose of Baha’u’llah.

He teaches that all the religions are true and none is superior to any other nor race nor nation. If one looks at human evolution we see a progression from the family to tribe, to city state then nation. Now we are at a crossroads where inventions such as the internet and world communications have united us ‘virtually’ already. And we love it. In many nations well over half the population regularly communicates across borders. The virtual world is borderless.

It’s going to take a lot of maturing for some to accept humankind is one family legally. That everyone has right to medical care, education and employment. With world disarmament funds would be free to spend on life instead of useless weapons of destruction.

Building trust and removing prejudices between races, nations and religions is painstaking and very hard work but Baha’u’llah maintains that peace can only be attained through education that all humanity are one, not through just treaties which almost always are ignored or broken.

So it’s up to the people of the world to become more universal. Religions, if they sincerely seek brotherhood need to mix and mingle not just with their own faith. This is the age of multi cultural and multi Faith. The spirit of the age by the very communications science has invented is stating this fact. Races, religions and nationalities have just been mixed together and cannot be ignored.

All the teachings of Baha’u’llah are doing is making the transition from a disunited world to a United one more easy by promoting inclusiveness as opposed to the disuniting forces of exclusivity which seeks to divide us and turn black against white, east against west and Christian against Muslim.

I see a clear need for a new world ethic which legally and morally recognises all people as equal human beings granting them rights to food, shelter, clothing, Medicare and education. Are we to be happy to live in comfort and ease while a fellow human struggles to put food on the table because mistrust has created so much suspicion that their government invests most of the gdp in military?


We can only ignore these people if we deny they are us. That would make us true racists. So if an American is harmed it matters but if it’s not our country or religion or race it matters not? It matters very much says Baha’u’llah.

It’s all about bringing people together. We are only a very tiny group but the message if the oneness of all humanity is an extremely potent idea circulating around the world and one day we hope that it will become a reality. It’s not just an ideology but the rights of all people worldwide needs to be fully established and upheld so all can have dignity and comfort.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
No room for questions in heaven. How will you ask ?

The above is a link to where this questioning started, but in order to prevent de-railing the thread, this thread has been created for anyone at all, especially Bahai people or anyone who deems themselves informed about Bahai or even just logical people, to contribute and think about and answer some of these questions.

The questions are as follows (but more may be brought up throughout the thread, and anyone else can also ask questions here about Bahai things or to me or whatever).

I currently do not consider myself a Bahai or follower of the Bab or Baha'u'llah, and will add that I may be somewhat prejudiced or suspicious of practically anything at all coming out of Persia and in relation to the Persian culture, all the way back through the Zoroastrian times even. The thing I dislike Persians for most, is their part in the creation and proliferation of the Hadiths. I don't like Persian people too much, even though some of the women can be good looking to me, but basically don't like anything about them at all overall usually (and also find that a lot of them might be crazy too), so that is to say I'm clearly prejudiced. At the time of the Zoroastrian things, they called the things from India demonic supposedly (naming as Daevas words like Sarva and Indra), and even said odd things about God in various ways like how they attributed to Ahriman the movement of things or change basically, which I attribute to God. Then they went on to make a big fuss about "the family of the Prophet" and mystical qualities and caste systems and blah blah blah, and they were killing lizards like crazy too, just not a fan of these people or their culture or their land or their ideas, even though they get lots of praise. Their influence on the religions, including Judaism, also seems to have been a potentially bad one as well. So, being quite hostile from the get go to this group of people, the idea of a charismatic leader coming along and making any claim, I'm already extremely skeptical, because I don't respect them at all, and already consider them liars from long ago, from the Zoroastrian times, into their Shia split times, finding their Shia traditions to be vile and obnoxious and even blasphemous, and then not being fond also of the Bahai movement either, as a kind of Westernizing suck up type movement, that is supported and funded by groups I don't like (like Zionists) to try to create some kind of trouble for Muslims (who I'm not particularly fond of either).

So, getting that out of the way, this is a great opportunity for people who are knowledgeable of the Bahai religion and history and apologetics to teach everyone who visits this thread all about the religion and put at ease their questions. It is unlikely to move me, except that the patience and courtesy and gentleness that people treat me with here in patiently answering my questions will likely leave me with the opinion that the Bahai are nice people (in fact, I already have this opinion of them, as they are decent and simple folks as far as I've seen and my family has been friends with Bahai people as well).

So to start off:

1. Why should Bab and Baha'u'llah be believed? While we're at it, why should any of these people be believed? Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Abraham, Paul, all the rest, whoever you can think of, why?

2. What significant update to Islam was required when the Muslims seem to still be functioning as Muslims along with the Qur'an.

3. Is the Qur'an to be believed, or is it a lie?

4. What are the changes to the Qur'anic laws by the Bab and to the Bab's laws by Baha'u'llah, and why was such an update necessary between these two in such an extremely small amount of time?

5. How are Bahai not just some type of Muslims?

6. Who are all the Prophets, and what is the point of calling them anything or giving them any significance if they are to be disregarded and are outdated anyway? Like, who cares about them if all that matters really is the Baha'u'llah and what Baha'u'llah says?

7. How do we know these people aren't just like any "Charismatic Cult Leader"?

8. The Mormons or the LDS Church (Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints or whatever) call their organizations leaders Prophets and have a chain of new ones leading back to Joseph Smith, then Brigham Young, and they keep updating and saying that this is the old stuff and here is the new stuff, is there any similarity to that and the Bahai thinking, and why should the Mormons not be believed and followed? They too are a wealthy organized religion with fancy looking buildings and other things.

9. What does it take to be a Bahai, and 9.2. how can one be a Bahai, and 9.3. why should one be a Bahai? 9.4. What is the expected fate of non-Bahai? 9.5. What is expected to happen to the devout Muslims? 9.6. So what then makes this addition necessary or worth the risk?

10. What is the population of the Bahai, their true number, in your estimates (taking out the nominal and not serious Bahai, but actual practitioners).

11. Please give the daily life and routine and rituals and activities of the best and most ideal Bahai person, 11.2. and if you do this, and 11.3. if not, why not? 11.4. Are you failing? 11.5. You aren't afraid or don't care much or what?

12. What is your personal story with Bahai, or if you are a Bahai, how did you come to Bahai or come to believe in it, and 12.2. what do you think of the Qur'an and 12.3. Why aren't you just a follower of the Qur'an?

13. What factor makes one or leads one to be a true Bahai and what is believed to be the factor that makes people deny it or defy it or reject it or be skeptical of it in the genuine views of the Bahai?

14. I view Bahai religion as a degradation or inferior version of Qur'anic Islam, can you clarify or correct this view and show how it might actually be an improvement on the Qur'anic religion or differs from it in such a way in its teachings and practices? I currently find the Muslims to be more devout, more physically clean, more disciplined, etc, so superior in every way to the Bahai which seems like its just a deflated and luke-warm Western pandering version of Islam.

15. What are the Bahai views on the actual detailed description of God (what is God, in detail, down to every detail you can muster up), angels, demons, jinn, whatever, the whole cosmology, the whole belief system in detail, magic, mysticism, symbols, all that you can discuss which give a clear picture of the Bahai worldview and cosmology and locations and history and bestiary and all that.

16. How can one come to respect, admire, or follow Baha'u'llah if one doesn't have much respect for any human beings, or for Baha'u'llah's supposed predecessors, or Muhammed, or Jesus, or Moses, or even God? 16.2. How much belief or practice is required to be a true Bahai or attain God's reward, and what is that Reward anyway and in return for what exactly and why?

17. What is the opposite of a Bahai (sometimes this helps clarify what a Bahai is through the example of what is not a Bahai or what the diametric opposite might be). 17.2. Who, if anyone, are the bad guys or groups, or list all the major bad guys or groups, like even Satan if Satan plays a role at all in the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

18. The statistical numbers of other groups are higher, what does this mean? Has the mission failed, or is it only getting started? It seems doubtful at this rate or with these numbers that Bahai religion will be a major force in 1000 years. 18.2. What accounts for the slaying of Bab and Baha'u'llah if these were slain (as compared to Muhammed, who was not slain, or Moses, who was not slain), and the comparatively small following of the Bahai faith as compared to variations of Islam and Christianity?

19. What are the strongest appeals and apologetics for Bahai religion and why one should follow it and perform each of the required or recommended rituals or tasks?

20. How was your mood and thought process before and after Bahai religion was taken on as your personal religion, and what aspects of it do you personally perceive as those which make the most beneficial difference in your thinking or practices?

21. What are some resources or all the best resources to read all the important or just all of the available and translated Bahai literature online, and what is the value if any of doing so, and what are the bare minimum requirements or recommendations for reading (how much does one need to know, and also if there is any stuff people should avoid reading or which when they read they become really difficult or skeptical).

22. Where is God right now, as I'm writing this, in your beliefs or understandings, and what would God think if I thought poorly of Baha'u'llah or Muhammed or something? Or even God? 22.2.What would thinking poorly of God be exactly in your opinion?

Lots of questions!

23. What is the Bahai organization hierarchy and system and who are the leaders and bosses and why?
24. Have you heard of the Ismaeli leadership structure? Can you compare it to them or the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses?

25. What aspects of your personal history and background do you think really might be responsible for your accepting Bahai religion as your religion (or rejecting it, if a non-Bahai answers).

You know, there was a thread opened I cant remember how long ago but was a pretty comprehensive discussion. You might find it interesting if you follow through with the reading.

Link: Why Bahai

Cheers.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
12. What is your personal story with Bahai, or if you are a Bahai, how did you come to Bahai or come to believe in it, and 12.2. what do you think of the Qur'an and 12.3. Why aren't you just a follower of the Qur'an?
Okay, I will try to answer one of your questions, an easy one because I already posted my personal story of “how I became a Baha’i” on this forum more than once, so I have the story saved in a Word document. :)

But before I post that, I would like to say that I would never even have known about the Qur’an had I not become a Baha’i, because I had zero interest in religion before I became a Baha’i. The Baha’i Faith was the first religion I investigated and I immediately fell in love with it and became a Baha’i two weeks later. In fact, I had not even read one page of the Bible till about eight years ago, and I have been a Baha’i for 50 years. The only reason I started to read the Bible is because I started posting on forums and having discussions with Christians. There were hardly ever any Muslims on the forums I posted on so I did not have the occasion to read the Qur’an even though it is just as important for a Baha’i to know the Qur’an as the Bible, maybe even more important. What I have read of the Qur’an is mostly what Baha’u’llah has quoted in The Kitáb-i-Íqán and I am enamored with all of it! The reason I could not be a Muslim is because I believe in progressive revelation, and that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ, the Messiah, and the Promised One of all the religions. Otherwise, I would lean more towards Islam than any other religion.

The problem is that I am always too busy reading and writing posts to have time to do much reading, unless it is related to a discussion I am engaged in, and I consider connecting to people on a personal level more important than discussing religion at length, although I am always happy to share my knowledge of the Baha’i Faith, which is pretty good, except when it comes to the history. Then there are all the animals that demand my attention and care, which leave little time for reading.

Below is my story as I posted to a Muslim a few months ago, relating to him what I had posted to a Christian on another thread:

“Here is my story as I related it to a Christian on this forum a few weeks ago. He was telling me about how he went from being a Catholic in his childhood to atheism in adulthood, and how he returned to Catholicism. The context is that he had a spiritual experience but I forgot all the details. So below is the story I related to him.

My story is no doubt a lot different from yours. I never really has any premonitions or spiritual experiences per se, except for the time when I first read Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh with serious intent and absolute desperation. That happened right after I had a life crisis about six years ago and I was at the brink of suicide. I had been at that brink many times before but this time was different because I had come back my religion after a long hiatus about a year and a half before that, so I was at a different place in my life. Before that when I was suicidal I had no hope... Anyhow, what happened was that I picked up that book called Gleanings and started to read it on the bus ride to work and it just hit me like a ton of bricks who God was and who Baha'u'llah was, and I started crying and could not stop. That was the real beginning of my spiritual journey.

Mind you, I had been a Baha'i for about 43 years at that time but I was not engaged and I knew nothing about God because that is not why I joined the religion; I joined because I am an idealist so I was drawn to the teachings and the primary message of Baha'u'llah, the unity of mankind and world peace.

Anyhow, I started in the middle of my story, so now I am going back to the beginning. I like telling stories almost as much as I like hearing them...

To try to make a long story short, my mother and father were raised as Christians, Greek Orthodox and Anglican, but they both dropped out of the Church long before their children were born, probably right after they married sometime in the 1940s. To not be a Christian in the United States was practically unheard of back in those days. So my brother and sister and I never saw a Bible or the inside of a Church and we never gave it a second thought.

Then when my brother was in his early 20s he got curious about religion so he read about all the great world religions, especially Christianity. As I recall he told me he read the Bible cover to cover five times. Then after all that he discovered the Baha'i Faith and read about it. I do not recall how long it was before he became a Baha'i, but it was in 1968. Then he told my sister and me about it in 1970 and we both read about it and became Baha'is shortly thereafter. About five years later he told my mother about it and she became a Baha'i, so that was the whole nuclear family because my father had died in 1964, before he ever heard of the Baha'i Faith. My father had one sister who was a confirmed atheist but all my mother's brothers and sisters were either Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox.

I said I was going to try to make a long story short, but that has not worked out very well so far, so now I am going to try to be more concise and you can ask me any questions about the last part of my story if you want to. So after I became a Baha'i I had a lot of psychological problems. This was unrelated to the religion, but rather owing to the difficult childhood I had, so I was not very active in the religion for very long and eventually I dropped out of activities. I was in "recovery" for a long time, but I was also in college for over 15 years so I was very busy, However, I never lost my belief in Baha'u'llah, although I was not tight with God at all because I was never close to God in the first place, and I was angry at Him for my suffering for about 10 years before I returned to the religion..

The last part of this story starts in January 2013, when I decided to try to engage with my religion again and to try to resolve my issues with God, and that is when I first came to forums. First In I started posting in a Baha'i forum and after that I branched out to other forums. That is when I started learning about Christianity and to a lesser extent about Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. About a year after that I started my own forum but after that I started posting on a forum that was primarily nonbelievers and that became my primary forum until I left about two and a half years ago and came to this forum. I recently returned to that atheist forum so now I am here and there. I like talking to atheists because most of them are very sincere people, they just don't see any evidence for God. But also I have an atheist bent, although I never doubted God’s existence for one minute.

The last seven years has been quite a spiritual journey, and I think I have grown more in these years than in all the previous years put together, in spite of all the counseling and support groups I attended during the previous years. I believe it was my willingness to give my religion and God another chance as well as the participation in forums that helped me grow spiritually. I am quite an introvert so this gives me an opportunity to socialize without going out. Let me put it this way: My ordinary lifestyle is sheltering in place, so now everyone has experienced the way I normally live.
C:\Users\Home\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif


I sure hope I did not bore you to tears.”

Proof of Islam?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
That is awesome! I knew a little about that, and had this Effendi name playing in my head just the other day for no apparent reason, and I didn't know about the 9. Are the elections performed by the Bahai members by mail in ballots or something? Does one have an official Bahai membership that they have to pay for or something in order to vote? This is fascinating stuff! I love learning about such things and how they work! Out of the 9, do the 9 each do the same thing or do they all do different things, like one takes care of money, one takes care of media, etc?

It is a big topic, but in a nutshell.

The elections are secret ballet and any Baha'i in good standing over the age of 21 can vote or be voted for. No canvassing for votes is allowed. 9 people are to be elected at the local communitu level.

Each year a convention is held that elects delagtes to attend a national convention where the National Spiritual Assembly of 9 people is elected.

Every 5 years the 9 members Universal House of Justice is elected by the members of the current National spiritual Assemblies.

All votes are spiritual basesed. We are to choose who we see as spiritual and capable in a prayerful attitude.

There is an elected Chairperson, Vice Chair treasure and secretary to allow for administrative duties and lawful requirements.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
The oneness thing though seemed to be something stated by the prior Muslim people and their Qur'an thing, then the Free-Masons, Napoleon seemed to say it even, and so the idea of a Universal One Religion seems to have been present already, most particularly in the Qur'an and Islam, where it says something like "There is Only One Religion" and that the same message was brought to mankind repeatedly throughout history and stuff. The Muslims also seem to have been one of the most successful in actually making it appear that way with their huge amounts of varying nations and people who all started following this One Religion. It seems as though that Baha'u'llah was mentioning these ideas but as of yet has not really had as much success based on the population of Bahai people with the literature or spread of the ideas or following as compared to Islam still (which seems to say the same thing basically).

Speaking of which, all the Muslims turn their face to the One Alien Cube for their One Alien God of the One Alien Religion, do the Bahai have any particular place they turn their face to when they perform worship similar to the Muslim style of worship?

I see God has always taught Oneness.

The Muslims did not follow Muhammad when Muhammad offered there is no compulsion in religion.

Baha'u'llah has again shown us that teaching of Muhammad and the Baha'i now practice it.

The holy books talk of an age where we will find peace as one people under one God. I see this is the dawn of that age.

Sorry, very busy in life at this time, off to work soon.

Regards Tony
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
was not "he whom God shall make manifest" either, who is still over approx 1000 years away as of this year according to the writings of The Bab.

Some of His disciples the Báb assiduously prepared to expect the imminent Revelation. Others He orally assured would live to see its day. To Mullá Báqir, one of the Letters of the Living, He actually prophesied, in a Tablet addressed to him, that he would meet the Promised One face to face. To Sayyáḥ, another disciple, He gave verbally a similar assurance. Mullá Ḥusayn He directed to Ṭihrán, assuring him that in that city was enshrined a Mystery Whose light neither Ḥijáz nor Shíráz could rival. Quddús, on the eve of his final separation from Him, was promised that he would attain the presence of the One Who was the sole Object of their adoration and love. To Shaykh Ḥasan-i-Zunúzí He declared while in Máh-Kú that he would behold in Karbilá the countenance of the promised Ḥusayn. On Dayyán He conferred the title of “the third Letter to believe in Him Whom God shall make manifest,” while to ‘Aẓím He divulged, in the Kitáb-i-Panj-Sha’n, the name, and announced the approaching advent, of Him Who was to consummate His own Revelation.

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.20

A successor or vicegerent the Báb never named, an interpreter of His teachings He refrained from appointing. So transparently clear were His references to the Promised One, so brief was to be the duration of His own Dispensation, that neither the one nor the other was deemed necessary. All He did was, according to the testimony of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in “A Traveller’s Narrative,” to nominate, on the advice of Bahá’u’lláh and of another disciple, Mírzá Yaḥyá, who would act solely as a figurehead pending the manifestation of the Promised One, thus enabling Bahá’u’lláh to promote, in relative security, the Cause so dear to His heart.

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.21

“The Bayán,” the Báb in that Book, referring to the Promised One, affirms, “is, from beginning to end, the repository of all of His attributes, and the treasury of both His fire and His light.” “If thou attainest unto His Revelation,” He, in another connection declares, “and obeyest Him, thou wilt have revealed the fruit of the Bayán; if not, thou art unworthy of mention before God.” “O people of the Bayán!” He, in that same Book, thus warns the entire company of His followers, “act not as the people of the Qur’án have acted, for if ye do so, the fruits of your night will come to naught.” “Suffer not the Bayán,” is His emphatic injunction, “and all that hath been revealed therein to withhold you from that Essence of Being and Lord of the visible and invisible.” “Beware, beware,” is His significant warning addressed to Vaḥíd, “lest in the days of His Revelation the Váḥid of the Bayán (eighteen Letters of the Living and the Báb) shut thee out as by a veil from Him, inasmuch as this Váḥid is but a creature in His sight.” And again: “O congregation of the Bayán, and all who are therein! Recognize ye the limits imposed upon you, for such a One as the Point of the Bayán Himself hath believed in Him Whom God shall make manifest before all things were created. Therein, verily, do I glory before all who are in the kingdom of heaven and earth.”

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.22

“In the year nine,” He, referring to the date of the advent of the promised Revelation, has explicitly written, “ye shall attain unto all good.” “In the year nine, ye will attain unto the presence of God.” And again: “After Ḥín (68) a Cause shall be given unto you which ye shall come to know.” “Ere nine will have elapsed from the inception of this Cause,” He more particularly has stated, “the realities of the created things will not be made manifest. All that thou hast as yet seen is but the stage from the moist germ until We clothed it with flesh. Be patient, until thou beholdest a new creation. Say: ‘Blessed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of Makers!’” “Wait thou,” is His statement to ‘Aẓím, “until nine will have elapsed from the time of the Bayán. Then exclaim: ‘Blessed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of Makers!’” “Be attentive,” He, referring in a remarkable passage to the year nineteen, has admonished, “from the inception of the Revelation till the number of Váḥid (19).” “The Lord of the Day of Reckoning,” He, even more explicitly, has stated, “will be manifested at the end of Váḥid (19) and the beginning of eighty (1280 A.H.).” “Were He to appear this very moment,” He, in His eagerness to insure that the proximity of the promised Revelation should not withhold men from the Promised One, has revealed, “I would be the first to adore Him, and the first to bow down before Him.”

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.23

Baha'u'llah has said His revelation first came to Him in the year nine in Siyah-Chal prison in late 1852. He disclosed to His disciples who He was in the year nineteen or 1863.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
But sometimes, its because they never knew much about their religion in the first place. sometimes it is for migration. Also sometimes its for a career.

So many reasons ... frustration at the politics, differences in opinion with spouse, following the spouse out, not what I thought it was, way too much dogma, no longer believe, didn't know about certain policies, backbiting, sexual antics, abuse, ... every case is individual, in leaving any religion. The ex-_______ stories are quite the reads. People change, they grow, they have events happen to them. All part of being human.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah has said His revelation first came to Him in the year nine in Siyah-Chal prison in late 1852. He disclosed to His disciples who He was in the year nineteen or 1863.
Then there is this...
The Old Testament clearly prophesied Twin Holy messengers that will come in succession. Anyone who knows the Bible can do the math if they are really interested in knowing who the Messiah was. Here are just a few prophecies and there are so many more:

“Zechariah, speaking of the last days, prophesied of the twin holy souls who would appear, saying: “Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”(Zechariah 4:14). In addition to the two ‘woes’, Revelation speaks of the ‘two olive trees’ and the ‘two candlesticks’. Malachi, speaking of the time of the end, prophesied:“Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” (Malachi 4:5). This was the very land, Persia, in which Daniel beheld.”… one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven…” (Daniel 7:13).

The Báb foretold that this great Redeemer would appear exactly nine years after his own coming. He would, therefore, as prophesied in the Old Testament, ‘suddenly come to his temple’. He would thus come just as Christ had so often emphasized in the Book of Revelation: “Behold I come quickly.”

Malachi, who called it the great and dreadful day of the Lord, foretold the appearance of two at the time of the end, saying:“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple …” (Malachi 3:1). The Báb repeatedly said that he was the Dawn, but that the Promise of all Ages Who was soon to come after him would be the Sun. He foretold that this great world Saviour would usher in an age of unprecedented progress and peace.” Thief in the Night, pp. 93-94

Baha’u’llah became aware of His revelation from God in 1852, in the Black Pit prison, exactly nine years after the Bab foretold the great Redeemer would appear: A revelation from God

The Bab was a Manifestation of God (Messenger) in His own right, so He was the first resurrection. He referred to the revelation of Baha’u’llah as the Latter Resurrection, and granted the Babis a respite of 19 years to be able to recognize Baha’u’llah, because the Bab knew that Baha’u’llah would publicly declare His Mission in1863. That is written in the second paragraph of Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 6-7.

“This is a letter from God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting, unto God, the Almighty, the Best Beloved, to affirm that the Bayán and such as bear allegiance to it are but a present from me unto Thee and to express my undoubting faith that there is no God but Thee, that the kingdoms of Creation and Revelation are Thine, that no one can attain anything save by Thy power and that He Whom Thou hast raised up is but Thy servant and Thy Testimony. I, indeed, beg to address Him Whom God shall make manifest, by Thy leave in these words: ‘Shouldst Thou dismiss the entire company of the followers of the Bayán in the Day of the Latter Resurrection by a mere sign of Thy finger even while still a suckling babe, Thou wouldst indeed be praised in Thy indication. And though no doubt is there about it, do Thou grant a respite of nineteen years as a token of Thy favour so that those who have embraced this Cause may be graciously rewarded by Thee. Thou art verily the Lord of grace abounding.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 6-7


Bahá'u'lláh claimed that his mission as the Promised One of the Báb, was revealed to Him in 1853 while imprisoned in the Síyáh-Chál in Tehran, Iran.[4] After his release from the Síyáh-Chál, Bahá'u'lláh was banished from Persia, and he settled in Baghdad, which became the centre of Bábí activity. Although he did not openly declare this prophetic mandate, he increasingly became the leader of the Bábí community.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridvan
 
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