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Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

SeekerOnThePath

On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
Some of His disciples the Báb assiduously prepared to expect the imminent Revelation. Others He orally assured would live to see its day. To Mullá Báqir, one of the Letters of the Living, He actually prophesied, in a Tablet addressed to him, that he would meet the Promised One face to face. To Sayyáḥ, another disciple, He gave verbally a similar assurance. Mullá Ḥusayn He directed to Ṭihrán, assuring him that in that city was enshrined a Mystery Whose light neither Ḥijáz nor Shíráz could rival. Quddús, on the eve of his final separation from Him, was promised that he would attain the presence of the One Who was the sole Object of their adoration and love. To Shaykh Ḥasan-i-Zunúzí He declared while in Máh-Kú that he would behold in Karbilá the countenance of the promised Ḥusayn. On Dayyán He conferred the title of “the third Letter to believe in Him Whom God shall make manifest,” while to ‘Aẓím He divulged, in the Kitáb-i-Panj-Sha’n, the name, and announced the approaching advent, of Him Who was to consummate His own Revelation.

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.20

A successor or vicegerent the Báb never named, an interpreter of His teachings He refrained from appointing. So transparently clear were His references to the Promised One, so brief was to be the duration of His own Dispensation, that neither the one nor the other was deemed necessary. All He did was, according to the testimony of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in “A Traveller’s Narrative,” to nominate, on the advice of Bahá’u’lláh and of another disciple, Mírzá Yaḥyá, who would act solely as a figurehead pending the manifestation of the Promised One, thus enabling Bahá’u’lláh to promote, in relative security, the Cause so dear to His heart.

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.21

“The Bayán,” the Báb in that Book, referring to the Promised One, affirms, “is, from beginning to end, the repository of all of His attributes, and the treasury of both His fire and His light.” “If thou attainest unto His Revelation,” He, in another connection declares, “and obeyest Him, thou wilt have revealed the fruit of the Bayán; if not, thou art unworthy of mention before God.” “O people of the Bayán!” He, in that same Book, thus warns the entire company of His followers, “act not as the people of the Qur’án have acted, for if ye do so, the fruits of your night will come to naught.” “Suffer not the Bayán,” is His emphatic injunction, “and all that hath been revealed therein to withhold you from that Essence of Being and Lord of the visible and invisible.” “Beware, beware,” is His significant warning addressed to Vaḥíd, “lest in the days of His Revelation the Váḥid of the Bayán (eighteen Letters of the Living and the Báb) shut thee out as by a veil from Him, inasmuch as this Váḥid is but a creature in His sight.” And again: “O congregation of the Bayán, and all who are therein! Recognize ye the limits imposed upon you, for such a One as the Point of the Bayán Himself hath believed in Him Whom God shall make manifest before all things were created. Therein, verily, do I glory before all who are in the kingdom of heaven and earth.”

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.22

“In the year nine,” He, referring to the date of the advent of the promised Revelation, has explicitly written, “ye shall attain unto all good.” “In the year nine, ye will attain unto the presence of God.” And again: “After Ḥín (68) a Cause shall be given unto you which ye shall come to know.” “Ere nine will have elapsed from the inception of this Cause,” He more particularly has stated, “the realities of the created things will not be made manifest. All that thou hast as yet seen is but the stage from the moist germ until We clothed it with flesh. Be patient, until thou beholdest a new creation. Say: ‘Blessed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of Makers!’” “Wait thou,” is His statement to ‘Aẓím, “until nine will have elapsed from the time of the Bayán. Then exclaim: ‘Blessed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of Makers!’” “Be attentive,” He, referring in a remarkable passage to the year nineteen, has admonished, “from the inception of the Revelation till the number of Váḥid (19).” “The Lord of the Day of Reckoning,” He, even more explicitly, has stated, “will be manifested at the end of Váḥid (19) and the beginning of eighty (1280 A.H.).” “Were He to appear this very moment,” He, in His eagerness to insure that the proximity of the promised Revelation should not withhold men from the Promised One, has revealed, “I would be the first to adore Him, and the first to bow down before Him.”

Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By", 2.23

Baha'u'llah has said His revelation first came to Him in the year nine in Siyah-Chal prison in late 1852. He disclosed to His disciples who He was in the year nineteen or 1863.

Lol.

Quotes Shoghi to try to refute me on what the Bab himself said in the Persian Bayan. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
But people mostly leave religions because they are too false for their liking. Some people do maintain rational thinking so don't always fall for the brainwashing inherent in all religions.

I would rather request you to not find opportunity in every thread to express your personal detestation. People do leave religion altogether and become atheists, but is that what happens "mostly" like you said?

Can you provide statistics?
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
I would rather request you to not find opportunity in every thread to express your personal detestation. People do leave religion altogether and become atheists, but is that what happens "mostly" like you said?

Can you provide statistics?

If you don't like my posts, just don't read them. It's as simple as that.
 

SeekerOnThePath

On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
This was extremely enlightening and informative, and I hope that you continue to visit this thread to show evidence or correct things that might be stated here which you feel might not be accurate or representing the truth precisely.

I was always more interested in and attracted to the Bab and the character of the Bab as compared to Baha'u'llah and Baha'u'llah's writing. I also was always attracted to the Yellow Turban Rebellion guys from China, because they were supposedly wizards also, and I have a thing for wacko wizard types (a thing for myself maybe).

Well unlike Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri, The Bab actually walked the talk. Bahauzabub was an aristocrat opportunist with no teachings of his own, his stealing from Subh i-Azal was the easy profitable route. Bahaulzabub and his successors, Abdulbaha and Shogie Effendi were all businessmen when it comes down to it. According to Persian historians around the time of the massacre of the Babis and martyrdom of the Bab, Bahauzabub denied his connections with the Babis. So much for the "manifestation of God".

Another bunch of people's writing I don't like very much are those people who talk to aliens or saints or something and relay back their words and are like "My dears, today my beloved, the alien reptiles have started their invasion of this deep blue world of love by manifesting their black and green hate rays into the hearts of their love-resistant cloned agents everywhere"

Maybe not the best imitation, but when they say "my beloved" or things like that, it really makes me cringe.

I feel the same, at the same time it's void of any sincerity. It's just fluffy language for it's own sake. Strip away the fluffy language and focus on the meat of what he's saying and it's vapid as hell.
Not even in the sense of "yOu jUsT dOnT rEsPeCt oThEr rElIgiOnS", though there is a very strong sense of both Joseph Smith and L Ron Hubbard in Bahaullah's writings.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Who lies, the people leaving, or the people in the religion about what it is? Or is it some of both?

I meant sometimes people lie about their reasons for leaving a religion and joining another. Not mostly or predominantly, but sometimes. Some people move from one religion to another just for the money. So they lie about their faith for it. This happens a lot.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Cool, it seems similar to this thread maybe, I'll read through all of that (insh'Allah or did I used to type insha'Allah? I forgot), I'm excited!

These guys who are Bahai's have a lot of patience mate. And they put a lot of effort in that thread to explain their faith. Honestly I learned about Bahaism from that thread. That was the beginning. So to me that thread is a wealth of knowledge. After reading some of the posts in that thread I even went and bought myself some scans of the original manuscript of al kithab al akdhas written by Bahaullah. So Im sure you will find it pretty useful in understanding the theology.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Muhammed's religion had such a huge impact, for better or for worse, on the whole globe, but unless the Bahai religion is somehow working behind the scenes or something, I can't see that it has had much of an impact just yet on anything much since the 1800s, but they have a thousand years or so to go I guess.

Well, in this case, I would say that in the first century after Muhammed the religion grew exponentially. But the environment was different at that time and if you study some of the anthropological studies about people, during that time people were more receptive toward new Gods. Now its completely different. But you cannot compare the growth because it was phenomenal in numbers at that time 14 centuries ago. Muhammed's theology grew so fast people did so much research on it just to understand how it happened. Maybe you should read up someone like Fred Donner who is an actual scholar.

Peace.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Did Baha'u'llah produce a book comparable to the Qur'an? One that rhymes, while saying so much cool stuff, covering so many topics in such an interesting and entertaining and creative way all at once? One that has maintained its amazing structure and rhythm for hundreds upon hundreds of years in a single compiled easy to read book? Did Baha'u'llah experience or perform any miraculous feats at all? Just a guy who writes a lot like I even do? Except, even I have experienced lots of cool miraculous seeming things.
Is there a list of Baha'u'llah's supposed miraculous experiences and performances? Or the product of his miracles, like a book like the Qur'an?

Brother. In this subject of the Qur'anic recitation, you should realise that the word Quran itself means a recitation. The Quran is unique.

The one single way to learn this superiority is to go to study as a Hafiz. It doesnt really take a lot of time. But whats important is the memory bells that ring when you memorise the Quran is unsurpassed. TO me, its miraculous. Its unbelievable. I know this may sound like a faith statement but this is fact.

In 1975 or 76 a Pakistani gentleman read the whole Quran by memory and established a Guinness world record. Millions of people memorise the Quran today but this was the guy who went to Guinness. So the point is, no other book has been ever memorised to this extent, so even if the Quran is mere human work, it is completely unique and in this subject cannot be compared to any other. No way.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe

firedragon

Veteran Member
Oh really!

Here's your comment of dislike below:



Here's the link to it:
Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

Just don't read my posts if you dislike them.

Nah. You said "mostly", so please do go and find some stats to substantiate it. See, you are stating your personal detestment of religion as a whole, nothing more.

Some people become atheists due to their reasoning, but not all conversions or most conversions happen because of your reasoning.

Also mate. Just look at your reasoning here. You respond to my comment, and then say "if you dislike it dont read it".

If I dont read it how would I know if I dislike or like it? :)
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Did Baha'u'llah produce a book comparable to the Qur'an? One that rhymes, while saying so much cool stuff, covering so many topics in such an interesting and entertaining and creative way all at once? One that has maintained its amazing structure and rhythm for hundreds upon hundreds of years in a single compiled easy to read book? Did Baha'u'llah experience or perform any miraculous feats at all? Just a guy who writes a lot like I even do? Except, even I have experienced lots of cool miraculous seeming things.
Is there a list of Baha'u'llah's supposed miraculous experiences and performances? Or the product of his miracles, like a book like the Qur'an?
The Kitáb-i-Íqán might be considered comparable since it is our primary theological work, although it is only about half as many pages as the Qur'an. I consider this book a miracle. ;)

The Kitáb-i-Íqán (Persian: كتاب ايقان‎, Arabic: كتاب الإيقان‎ "Book of Certitude") is one of many books held sacred by followers of the Bahá'í Faith; it is their primary theological work. One Bahá'í scholar states that it can be regarded as the "most influential Quran commentary in Persian outside the Muslim world," because of its international audience.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the Book of Iqan or simply The Iqan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitab-i-Iqan
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I don't really know what the Bahai could offer that is better than my beliefs or my religion, which even easily enough encompasses all their materials without sacrificing any other materials and doesn't cut oneself off from most anything.

I would only offer what Baha'u'llah has offered and it is for you to decide if what you beleive is better, or if it is contained within what Baha'u'llah offered.

I will always wish you well and happy.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I meant sometimes people lie about their reasons for leaving a religion and joining another. Not mostly or predominantly, but sometimes. Some people move from one religion to another just for the money. So they lie about their faith for it. This happens a lot.

Some also lie just to stay alive.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Some also lie just to stay alive.

Of course. The Shii's called it Taqiyya and is normal for anyone under threat.

But we were talking about conversion, not lying.

Some also lie in an Internet forum for no reason I could understand, and maybe "why lie" would be a good topic for a thread. ;)
 
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Hi, so I was reading the Wikipedia page of Baha'u'llah Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia and will likely read the one for Bab Báb - Wikipedia after. Bab (I keep making the typo "Baby") was only 30 when they were executed. As far as at the article is concerned, which I do think was most likely written by people familiar with Bahai history or a Bahai person, never seemed to clarify that the Baby dangit BAB said explicitly that Baha'u'llah was the One to Come, but I was loving the story and imagining it like a movie, which makes it a lot of fun for to read about. I also noticed that Baha'u'llah may have had an extremely thick beard, and I was wondering what that was all about, like why in neighboring regions they don't have as thick of beards sometimes and why others might. I was impressed by their young ages, since I'm only 33 currently myself, and I was proud to have outlived these people so far. They had wives, children, and followers, and were like instagram ages, just like young folks on instagram.

Then I wondered, well I'm 33, and I'm awesome, why am I not the Super Lord? Then I thought, How am I NOT the Super Lord? I've been doing all sorts of cool stuff, miraculously from the comfort of my own home, since I was a little child, as well as in real life. Yet, probably no one much would ever believe me if I said I AM THE DOOR! or I am He Who Walks Through The Door! Why believe them and not me? I literally am both of those things at once even.

Then I thought, well actually, besides me(ssiah), there are numerous people throughout history who have claimed to be the chosen one, the master, the magical one, the Prophet, the Messenger, the Herald, the God, the Manifestation of God, Incarnate, Reincarnated Hero or God, all of that stuff. Why don't we believe every single one of them? Instead we pick and choose between them, and some or most we say are crazy or liars, but why do we do that and how do we do that, and then also end up deciding on one or the other or choosing some over others? I also thought of all the Mahdi Mehdi people too.

Look at this list that God inspired me to show you all as I have always acted as his Delivery Agent, The Delivery Agent of God:
List of people who have been considered deities - Wikipedia
List of Buddha claimants - Wikipedia
Maitreya - Wikipedia
List of avatar claimants - Wikipedia
List of Jewish messiah claimants - Wikipedia
List of messiah claimants - Wikipedia
List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia
List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

Messiah complex - Wikipedia
God complex - Wikipedia
Grandiose delusions - Wikipedia
Cult of personality - Wikipedia
False prophet - Wikipedia

Religious delusion - Wikipedia
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia
Jerusalem syndrome - Wikipedia
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia
Mental health of Jesus - Wikipedia
Divine madness - Wikipedia

Unfulfilled Christian religious predictions - Wikipedia
List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia
List of predictions - Wikipedia
Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia
Baháʼí prophecies - Wikipedia
List of prophecies of Joseph Smith - Wikipedia
Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions - Wikipedia
Postdiction - Wikipedia

Chosen people - Wikipedia
Jews as the chosen people - Wikipedia
People of God - Wikipedia
Christ (title) - Wikipedia
You are Christ - Wikipedia

Mahdi - Wikipedia
Signs of the reappearance of Hujjat-Allah al-Mahdi - Wikipedia
Reappearance of Hujjat-Allah al-Mahdi - Wikipedia
The signed letter of Hujjat-Allah al-Mahdi - Wikipedia

Stendhal syndrome - Wikipedia

Paris syndrome - Wikipedia

So what is really going on here? Breeze through those lists and articles (a lot of funny things to imagine and see and learn about), and tell me, why do we believe one over the other? Why do I believe and not believe? You know, I hate being biased, prejudiced, selective! I want to know why, I, The Great God's-man Godman (India) - Wikipedia choose some over the others, why I reject some and accept others? What is it? What is it in others that they are able to accept some and reject others?

Cult Leader - Wikipedia
Cargo cult - Wikipedia

List of new religious movements - Wikipedia
List of cults of personality - Wikipedia

16 Effects of Testosterone on the Body
Testosterone and Confidence - Big Natural Testicles

Testosterone. Testosterone. Does it all come down to Testosterone?

High Status/Low Status Character Physicality

Studies show that Apes (like us), stare longer at images of "High Status" Apes or something, I think I read somewhere, and that there must be certain cues as to what indicates to an Ape mind (like ours) that such and such individual Ape should be trusted, loved, followed, is of a higher status, is to be believed.

So tell me, I beg of you all, I BEG of you all (not very high status of me, eh?), why should we reject L. Ron (or Elrond) Hubbard's claims? Why should we reject Joseph Smith's claims? Why should we accept the claims of Baha'u'llah? Why should we reject Muhammed, Jesus, Moses? Why should we laugh at the Afro hairstyle of the God-Man Sathya Sai Baba? Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia or his awesome miracles


Idolatry - Wikipedia

Idolatry is the worship of an idol or cult image, being a physical image, such as a statue, or a person in place of God.
In Abrahamic religions, namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam, idolatry connotes the worship of something or someone other than God as if it were God. In these monotheistic religions, idolatry has been considered as the "worship of false gods" and is forbidden by the values such as the Ten Commandments. Other monotheistic religions may apply similar rules.[4] In many Indian religions, such as theistic and non-theistic forms of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, idols (murti) are considered as symbolism for the absolute but not The Absolute,[5] or icons of spiritual ideas,[5][6] or the embodiment of the divine.[7] It is a means to focus one's religious pursuits and worship (bhakti).[5][8][6] In the traditional religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Africa, Asia, the Americas and elsewhere, the reverence of an image or statue has been a common practice, and cult images have carried different meanings and significance.[1]
 
Part 2:

"
Brihad Upanishad declares:-, "if you think there is another entity whether man or God there is no truth." This is the teaching since time immemorial of those who have inquired into truth.


Consciousness alone which is permanent and eternal, unchanging in the changing world is reality. People hear of Brahman or ultimate truth. People can only imagine it. One requires words only to distinguish between is there and not there, but he can’t posit either of Reality, because his saying so is only an idea, not reality. Ultimate truth is beyond words. Words are of use, however, as a thorn to pull out the thorn of other words that hinder knowledge.


Intellectually knowing the truth is only an imagination, whereas realizing the truth is knowing it as such.


Thus orthodoxy which misleads the seekers of truth, therefore seeker of truth has to verify the truth on his own by reason based on the consciousness as self then only accept the un-contradictable truth.


And also in Yajurved says:

Translation 1.

They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (for example air, water, sun, moon, animals, fire, stone, etc).

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc.) (Yajurved 40:9)

Translation 2.

"Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti's worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent." (Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith pg 538)

Translation 3.

"They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti -- the material cause of the world -- in place of the All-pervading God, But those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." (Yajur Veda 40:9.)

So, Yajur Veda indicates that:-

They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol etc (Yajurved 40:9)

Those who worship visible things born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time." [Yajur Veda 40:9.]

When Yajur Veda declares that they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time."

When the religion of the Veda knows no idols then why so many gods and goddesses with different form and name are being propagated as Vedic gods. Why these conceptual gods are introduced when Vedic concept of god is free from form and attributes.

Who introduced concept of god with attributes and attributeless gods, when Yajur Veda says: - those who worship visible things, born of the prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like), in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness. Therefore, all these add-ons proves that the form and attribute based concepts are introduced by some sages of the past with new belief system and code of conducts in the name of Vedas.

Sruti is made the final or exclusive authority in apara Vidya and that for supporting the tenet of the CAUSAL relation or creatorship of Brahman, Nirguna Brahman = the "Absolute beyond qualities," which can be defined only in a negative way. For the Shankarian school = the Ultimate Reality, higher than the Lord. i.e. of Saguna or apara Brahman ... The support of Scriptural Revelation is, therefore, absolutely necessary for this hypothesis of cosmology, this Saguna or apara (= inferior) Brahman, but not for the absolute truth of Nirguna Brahman.

The Sruti itself says: "This Atma is NOT to be attained by a study of the Vedas. (Katha Upanishad I, 2, 23.)

Therefore, all the non- Vedic add-ons and attribute based knowledge, which are inferior, have to be bifurcated and excluded to know the ultimate truth. The seeker of truth has to drop all the inferior knowledge based on the attributes and go beyond Vedas to understand assimilate and realize the ultimate truth or Brahman.

One has to go beyond Vedas means go beyond religion. Go beyond religion means, go beyond concept of god. Thus, going beyond Veda, religion and conceptual god means going beyond illusion. That is end of Vedas (Veda –antha)
"

From: They sink deeper in darkness those who worship sambhuti. (S

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia

Zhang Jue - Wikipedia
 
Of course. The Shii's called it Taqiyya and is normal for anyone under threat.

But we were talking about conversion, not lying.

Some also lie in an Internet forum for no reason I could understand, and maybe "why lie" would be a good topic for a thread. ;)

What lies are we thinking of though when it was said that some are liars. Was the thought that on some websites or even in videos and interviews people lie about their past and their religions and their leaving religions and conversions to other things? I've seen a lot of very fake "I've left Islam" Christian type videos which seem a lot less genuine than some "I've joined Islam" types of videos. I've seen lots of fake seeming "I've become a Christian" type videos, and a lot of genuine or sincere seeming ones as well. Some of the features which make a thing look suspect to me are the way they are speaking and acting, the voice and tones and dialogue, the way they hold their eyes, their animosity towards the religions, the slickness and quality and production values. Lots of factors. On a forum, one could never know to what degree someone is telling the truth in their text, but I come off for example as a very genuine person probably and I aim for casual authenticity in my style, whereas a very polished type almost prepared statement look and style to the text gives the impression of some agenda, or some trolls come on and appear to be trolls based on their behavior and text style or incessant obnoxiousness which amounts to hammy performances and "bad acting" for whatever they are trying to pose as, or that they are just aimless bullies trying to get a kick out of people's reactions or something.

I think it is actually some kind of mental disorder when people go around doing that sort of thing. I also think true Christians would never lie and deceive, and the ones who do it are some kind of worldly politicized villains and I hope they roast for it (and whoever does it, not just so-called Christian agenda liars).

All the Bahai on this website, as far as I can tell, are sincere people, giving me the impression of being good people. Actually, the vast majority of people on this website come off to me as actually genuinely decent, kind-hearted, nice, and honest people.

Out of all the people on this website, I think I'm probably the most open, sincere, and free from any covert agenda that I'm not willing to disclose. When I ask questions, like I am doing here in this thread, these are things that actually bother me for real, and what bothers me for real is why:

Why! Why do we select some things, find some things acceptable to select and follow, and find other things unacceptable. It seriously bothers me. Like, why am I so totally blocked from any of this Bahai stuff. It must be the same as a person who feels so totally blocked from the Islam stuff, or from God stuff at all, its the same sort of block, this is an amazing experience, to feel it, to feel what it is really like probably to be like an Atheist or a Christian or Jew who strongly dislikes or is blocked from Islam, I can feel that same sort of feeling when I read this Bahai stuff, its so blocked, and in a way it makes me feel sick that I am like that, that I can't even be opened to it, not even in the slightest, like what the heck is wrong with me? This is what I'm begging you all to help me with and help me understand, because it bothers me, everything I ever bring up in this forum or any forum, it leads up to something real, something that actually concerns me or disturbs me, even if it isn't obvious at first, I don't want to be just blindly closed off to something right from the get-go for no reason, its unfair, but its REAL, its HAPPENING, and I'd be a liar to deny it.

Can anyone give it a shot or a few shots as to why they think this is the case?

Why do we each all believe something, deny other things, is it just how we were brought up? So many people reject the things they were told or believed when they were younger or how they were brought up to believe though, so maybe its not that at all.

Why do I think Joseph Smith and Baha'u'llah are not the same as Moses or Muhammed? Well one thing might be that very little is actually known about the real Moses or Muhammed due to their far away existence in the foggy mists of times long past. Joseph and Baha'u'llah were both people who seemingly made extraordinary claims, and after a certain point, and the content they produced is not to my tastes, and both had their lives ended, while Moses and Muhammed seemed to succeed, were credited as bringing down tremendous books which have ultimately had enormous influence on the world, and they were not slain (but cut everyone else's necks successfully). Based on the Qur'anic versions of these character, I love them a lot, they are both depicted as basically dim-witted simpleton scaredy-cats and I love characters like that, they are lovable because they don't pretend to be sages, but are instead cowardly goons. I can relate, I myself am a simpleton, a cowardly goon, in awe of the power of nature and the weird things I notice, and this is the way the Qur'an seems to make these characters out to be. They are also nobodies, orphans basically, who had circumstances come up which put them in certain weird positions to end up staging highly unlikely projects which saved a people or changed the world at large forever.

I like the Qur'an's version of every single character it mentions, even the villains, they are some of the most entertaining characters, dialogue, internal dialogue or thoughts and reactions, I am so pleased with the book, even as a story book or literature. I feel the deepest disgust and aversion towards the Biblical version of all the same, and the reaction is visceral and violent, it fills me with rage and intense hot sadness and hot tears with how disturbed the Bible makes me, and that is probably because of how its like some kind of alternate version (older and original) to the Qur'an which makes all the characters I love and prefer so much, just the worst people on Earth in my view, yuck central. I strongly abhor the Hadith literature also, for their blessed spitting Metro Muhammed sans pubic hairs, I don't believe a word of it, probably because it doesn't mesh with what I've loved about my interpretation of the Qur'anic version of his character, and so it seems I just believe whatever the heck I want to believe, and what I hate, I don't believe at all.

They say "be opened", and I don't know how to do this, especially when accepting some of these things feels almost like death or accepting poison and destroying everything I have built up in my mind, everything I actually enjoy, and even abandoning all the characters I really love and relate to, in exchange for these totally annoying people I seem to be able to do nothing but actually despise.

How can I remove the hatred in my heart for these "Sage" type characters? How can I, like my fellow monks, monkeys, aces, and apes before me, come to admire and love characters who are annoying "Wise Willing Sages" instead of the "Cowardly Unwilling Simpletons" that I prefer as my Brothers in Awe?
 
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