Questions that believers cannot answer

[Trailblazer]

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case.

My understanding....
Without some form of suffering and pain, how would we be able to grow spiritually ? The suffering is there to make us stronger when we realize what causes us to feel it as suffering.

When it comes to why God created a place for human to feel suffering, I believe we have been spiritual beings without a physical body before we was humans. And this physical body was created so we would feel pain and agony due to our past sin when we fall from closeness to God.
The further away from God, the more dense our existence become. (Physical body)

Only my thoughts.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case.

I think people seek coping mechanisms to deal with the pain that entails life. God just happens to be such a mechanism, so I view it as a mental crutch.

 

[The Hammer]

I think people seek coping mechanisms to deal with the pain that entails life. God just happens to be such a mechanism, so I view it as a mental crutch.

Well. You'll find out if your right eventually.

 

[The Hammer]

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

I was predestined to call this silly.

 

[Kenny]

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

I'm not sure I understand... how exactly do you want this to be answered?

 

[PureX]

No one ever likes my response to this issue whenever it comes up, because I'm saying that it's inappropriate to ask these questions in the first place.

To ask them we must stand in judgment of existence as if we know how "it should be" (free from suffering). But we don't know squat. We don't know why the universe exists. We don't even know why existence exists. We don't know if the universe is all that exists, or if existence includes more than the universe. We don't know if the universe or existence has any purpose besides it just being. We don't know what it's capacities or limitations are. We don't know if it has any boundaries or if there can 'be anything' beyond those boundaries.

So by what logic or reasoning are we presuming to know that existence should not involve suffering? I mean, what IS suffering, even, apart from our own preference to avoid it?

 

[ChristineM]

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

Why indeed, it's as though there were no god and things just happen

 

[stvdv]

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

questions-that-believers-cannot-answer

Simple to answer for me: If believers can't answer these questions themselves it just means that they need to work/study harder to get the answer, and/or they need to drop some of their brainwashed preconditioned ideas

By the way...the question itself is wrong. If you discover what I mean, you might understand things much better

 

[Truth in love]

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case.

We only gain muscle by exercise. Life is difficult on purpose. Why?? God wants us to learn and grow.
We accept pain for a needed surgery. We accept that staying alive means we get old. We can also accept that life is difficult and that it’s okay.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

No one ever likes my response to this issue whenever it comes up, because I'm saying that it's inappropriate to ask these questions in the first place.

To ask them we must stand in judgment of existence as if we know how "it should be" (free from suffering). But we don't know squat. We don't know why the universe exists. We don't even know why existence exists. We don't know if the universe is all that exists, or if existence includes more than the universe. We don't know if the universe or existence has any purpose besides it just being. We don't know what it's capacities or limitations are. We don't know if it has any boundaries or if there can 'be anything' beyond those boundaries.

So by what logic or reasoning are we presuming to know that existence should not involve suffering? I mean, what IS suffering, even, apart from our own preference to avoid it?

What I don't like about this argument is that it asks one to suspend his judgment, in this case moral judgment, but faith also asks one to suspend reason, and just simply accept that what appears morally repugnant might be goodness in disguise, or that the incoherent might be correct. That's poor advice. Faith is always a logical error. Things believed by faith cannot be sound beliefs, the latter requiring valid reasoning applied to relevant evidence to decide.

This option - belief by faith - is off the table, and should be. If something can only be believed by faith, it is probably incorrect, and shouldn't be believed even if it is correct until some reason to believe it appears.

 

[PureX]

What I don't like about this argument is that it asks one to suspend his judgment, in this case moral judgment, but faith also asks one to suspend reason, and just simply accept that what appears morally repugnant might be goodness in disguise, or that the incoherent might be correct. That's poor advice. Faith is always a logical error. Things believed by faith cannot be sound beliefs, the latter requiring valid reasoning applied to relevant evidence to decide.

This option - belief by faith - is off the table, and should be. If something can only be believed by faith, it is probably incorrect, and shouldn't be believed even if it is correct until some reason to believe it appears.

I don't know where you're getting any of this from. My point is that we humans are so lacking in any understanding of existence that we have no business passing moral judgments on it in the first place. It's like passing moral judgment on the wind. Or on infinity.

And why you're trying to connect faith to this observation escapes me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well. You'll find out if your right eventually.

The problem is, when I'm dead, I won't be even be aware if I'm right or wrong.

 

[The Hammer]

The problem is, when I'm dead, I won't be even be aware if I'm right or wrong.

That you're currently aware of.

I've encountered disembodied sprits that seem to suggest otherwise.

But who knows, maybe I'm just nuts.

 

[The Hammer]

We only gain muscle by exercise. Life is difficult on purpose. Why?? God wants us to learn and grow.
We accept pain for a needed surgery. We accept that staying alive means we get old. We can also accept that life is difficult and that it’s okay.

Prefer to look at it as if you don't understand pain, or loss, how can understand the importance of pleasure, and gain?

 

[The Hammer]

Why indeed, it's as though there were no god and things just happen

That's just why my gods aren't all loving and all-just

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think people seek coping mechanisms to deal with the pain that entails life. God just happens to be such a mechanism, so I view it as a mental crutch.

Believing in God was undoubtedly a mental crutch for me. I know now that it was foolish of me to sustain my faith and hope in God even after experiencing severe abuse growing up and having PTSD for years as a result of the abuse and trauma I endured as a child.

I've heard the experience of deconverting from Christianity compared to swallowing the red pill and waking up to reality rather than swallowing the blue pill and remaining perfectly content in a fantasy. I'm not a fan of the Matrix, but this analogy makes sense to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That you're currently aware of.

I've encountered disembodied sprits that seem to suggest otherwise.

But who knows, maybe I'm just nuts.

I just put things as how things were before I was born. I suspect it's always going to be what I call the great reset.

 

[The Hammer]

I just put things as how things were before I was born. I suspect it's always going to be what I call the great reset.

Idk. I've also had some past life stuff come up. So what I was before could get complicated.

Either way, we don't know. And we won't know until the actual time of our passing arises.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That you're currently aware of.

That's true.

I've encountered disembodied spirits that seem to suggest otherwise

My own experiences with disembodied spirits is the very reason why I continue to believe in the spirit world.

But who knows, maybe I'm just nuts.

I used to think I was unhinged when I was younger because I could see spirits and interact with them, but then I started encountering other people who had similar experiences to my own when I was in my early thirties. It wasn't long before I began to look into and learn about the paranormal on my own so I could have concrete proof of what I had seen and experienced since I was six years old.