*sigh*
@stevecanuck cited 86:5-7 as an example of an error in the Quran, because it says that man is created from a fluid that comes from "between the backbone and the ribs".
You claimed that it is not an error because "Backbone" is a mistranslation and it actually means "loins". Therefore your claim is that it means man was created from a fluid coming from between the loins and the ribs.
This is also wrong.
You then further modified your claim by saying that it also means mis is created from a fluid coming from between the man and the woman's body.
This is also wrong because vaginal fluids are not involved in conception.
So, you presented two alternative interpretations. Both of those interpretations are factually wrong.
*Sigh* You just have to prove to me
again and again that you are incapable to understand what you read and you are incapable to think logically and rationally.
Here’s my response to
@stevecanuck – “
In Arabic, the word "sulb" (translated as 'backbone') is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Quran. For example, in Quran 4:23, Allah says: "Prohibited to you (for marriage) are wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb)."
Moreover, Arabs can also understand "sulb" to refer to a part of the male body and the "tarâ'ib"(translated as 'ribs') to a part of the female”.
So, where in my explanation to him did I say ‘backbone’ is a mistranslation and it actually means "loins"??
Your tendency to assume is making you look like a fool again!!
My explanation of the word “sulb” which was translated as ‘backbone’ in Quran 86:5-7 passage is to point out that the word ‘sulb’ is not necessarily referred to ‘backbone’ only, as, in a different context, it could mean ‘loins’ as can be seen in Quran 4:23. That explanation has nothing to do with the context of the Quran 86:5-7 passage. Therefore, the explanation of the word ‘sulb’ is NOT an interpretation of the Quran 86:5-7 passage as you think it so.
Therefore, there’s only 1 interpretation in my explanation of Quran 86:5-7 and that is “
Arabs can also understand "sulb" to refer to a part of the male body and the "tarâ'ib"(translated as 'ribs') to a part of the female”. So, what's so wrong to say a man is created from a fluid that comes from a part of the male and from a part of the female??
I have already explained.
The passage first says what man is created from. It then describes where it comes from.
The passage explains both what and where. And that explanation is incomplete and inaccurate - thus proving the Quran was not authored by an infallible, omniscient god.
However, if it was authored by men with a rather primitive understanding of human reproduction, it makes perfect sense. This is confirmed by the passages that are supposed to describe stages of human embryology. They are also incomplete, inaccurate and certainly no better than the descriptions already existing at the time.
You have explained
NOTHING. What you (and your equally ignorant buddy
@stevecanuck) have presented is just the translation, NOT the interpretation or the understanding of that passage.
(Sigh) I see I need to go a bit into detail on this -
You are just repeating a common error often made by ignorant readers of that passage and that is they
assumed (which you are good at) the verse to mean that both ‘sulb’ and ‘tara’ib’ refer to the male. In other words, the fluid emitted refers to the semen, and it comes out from in between the sulb and the tara’ib. However, the truth of the matter is that the word ‘tarai’b’—according to the Arabic—is actually referring to a female body part. Much like the English word ‘penis’ can only be ascribed to a male, the word ‘tara’ib’ can only be applied to a female.
In other words,
the sulb belongs to the male,
and the tara’ib belongs to the female. This is NOT just my view, BUT the view of the Muslims for the last fourteen hundred years, and there is consensus on this matter, from the time of the Sahabah (the Prophet’s disciples) until today.
Lane’s Lexicon says:
Tara’ib: … most of the authors on strange words affirm decidedly that it (tara’ib) is peculiar to women. (Lane’s Lexicon, p.301)
All of the major commentaries of the Quran
confirm that the tara’ib is peculiar to women.
Ibn Katheer writes in his tafseer (commentary) of the Quran: “
It (fluid) emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah’s permission, the child comes forth as a product of both”. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer)
Tafseer al-Jalalayn says: “
Issuing from between the sulb, of the man, and the tara’ib, of the woman”. (Tafseer Al-Jalalayn
)
Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafseer Ibn Abbas says: “
That issued from between the sulb of the man and the tara’ib of a woman.
(Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafseer Ibn Abbas
)
You claimed that "a fluid coming from between the backbone and ribs" is a mistranslation and misinterpretation.
That translation/interpretation if favoured by the majority of translations by bilingual Islamic scholars. You claim it is wrong. Therefore you are claiming that you know better than they. It's really not that difficult to grasp.
Oh dear, what a simpleton!! OK, show me one interpretation (NOT a translation) of one of these bilingual Islamic scholars that clearly reflect their literal understanding that “
fluid comes from between the backbone and ribs”.
Because they say "x" but you insist that it is "not x".
First, you need to prove to me that they really
meant ‘x’ and not just reading what has been translated as ‘x’. For example, I can tell you in Arabic that literally translated as “go and fly a kite”. Ignorant listeners after hearing the translation of my words may think I am asking you to literally fly a kite, but do you really think I literally meant that you find a kite, run to an open field and fly the kite??? (I hope you understand idioms!).
I don't need to, because they have written down and published their opinions. Do you not understand how books work?
Then show me or point it to me their written opinions on that passage. Do you understand how this work?? If you make a claim then you have to prove that claim is true.
By reading it. You really don't know how books work, do you?
LOL!!!! What a simpleton!! Reading it
does not mean you understand it. You really don’t know how this work, do you?? Oops, I keep forgetting that you cannot understand what your read especially
in English!!!
You did, by saying that the passage means "man is created from the sexual fluids emitting from a man and a woman"
Firstly, I never mentioned
sexual fluids, but if that’s what you want to call it, ok.
Secondly, you still think women do not discharge any fluid, which obviously reflects your ignorance of the functions of a woman's body.
Let me try and explain it to you -
A man contributes sperm, but a sperm by itself cannot aid in reproduction unless it reaches the female egg and this sperm cannot reach the female egg itself. Rather, it has to be mixed in with semen,
a viscous fluid that aids in transportation. Similarly,
a woman contributes an egg, but this egg cannot travel through the fallopian tube and uterus
without it being mixed in the fluid which is not sperm, but it is like sperm in that it helps the follicle to travel. In fact, during ovulation, a great deal of fluid is released by the female from a variety of sources inside her body.
The AmericanPregnancy.org says “Ovulation is assumed to take place on the day
a woman has the most amount of wet fluid” - (
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/get…ulationfaq.htm)
A medical website, OncologyChannel.com, says: “When a woman is fertile, each month a Graafian follicle travels to the surface of the ovary, bursts, and
releases an egg and its fluid contents into a fallopian tube”.
(
http://www.oncologychannel.com/ovari…er/index.shtml)
Indeed. But the Quran only mentions the one fluid.
Of course, you claim it mentions two, but babies doesn't come from two fluids either. So whichever way you slice your desperate explanations the Quran is wrong.
What one fluid, two fluids nonsense are you talking about here??? There are several fluids involved in the reproduction of the human being the Quran here refers to them all as a fluid, NOT as one fluid or two fluids, just a fluid.
Without the male discharged fluid, the male sperm
cannot travel to reach the female egg, and without the female discharged fluid, the female egg
cannot survive in the fallopian tube of the woman.
If the male sperm cannot reach the female egg, can pregnancy happen?? Obviously not. In other words, what makes human reproduction possible is the fluid that the male and female discharge. Without the fluid, no pregnancy is possible.
Then there is
the amniotic fluid from the female body in which the unborn baby floats in for the duration of the pregnancy period. During the actual delivery, the sac containing the amniotic acid in which the unborn baby floats in, burst and flow out with the just delivered baby child.
So yes, from the
visual perspective in those days and the only perspective those folks can understand (as no way those folks back then can see and understand what’s going in the female body in the process of reproduction) man
was created from a fluid, ejected emerging from a part of the male (‘sulb’) and from a part of the female (‘tara’ib’).
Seems to me it's folks like you who make baseless accusations of the Quran without even understanding the context, logic, and rationale behind those passages.
So, whichever way you slice your ignorant ‘knowledge’ and present them as ‘explanations’, the Quran IS RIGHT!
