Quran is free of errors

[kai]

Yes, bad translation.



I'll tell you.

[72] We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it; - he was indeed unjust and foolish; - (Quran 33:72)

Allah is showing the great importance of trust and responsibility, and that it been offered to the heavens, earth, and mountains but they all feared that they will not be up to it, and human beings easily took it and claimed to be able to hold this important task--maintaining trust amongst human beings and be truthful and up to it.

What more do you want to know kai?



Peace be upon you all.

Hello TashaN

OK here's what i want to know, when you say trust are you referring to the offer of Islam or freewill itself.

 

[TashaN]

Hello TashaN

OK here's what i want to know, when you say trust are you referring to the offer of Islam or freewill itself.

Neither. Many scholars differed on what Allah meant in this verse. Some of them said it's the obedience and doing the rituals and what it entails of reward and punishment. Adam here representing human beings of course, because he is the one who accepted it. But most of the scholars said it's about the trust and trustee affairs as a whole. Trust here representing nothing but what we human beings value as a trust, like properties, or even a saying, or an act of trust between human beings, etc. I can look more into it if you want.

 

[kai]

Neither. Many scholars differed on what Allah meant in this verse. Some of them said it's the obedience and doing the rituals and what it entails of reward and punishment. Adam here representing human beings of course, because he is the one who accepted it. But most of the scholars said it's about the trust and trustee affairs as a whole. Trust here representing nothing but what we human beings value as a trust, like properties, or even a saying, or an act of trust between human beings, etc. I can look more into it if you want.

thats great i think i understand----- but how can mountains refuse the trust?

 

[TashaN]

thats great i think i understand----- but how can mountains refuse the trust?

Hmmmm, you think we should ask mountains why they refused it? Do you know a mountain near by which we can ask?

EDIT: Seriously, mountains were just afraid not being able to be up to the task. They TALK to God, yes, if that's what you are after. He is God, the one who created the universe. You might not believe it, but hey, the idea of a "god" to you is insane and bizarre enough that this issue is way so minor compared to it.

Now that i come to think of it, you might have been referring to the inability of anyone to say no to God?

Well, they didn't say that. God didn't ask them to do it, because that would be something else, he just gave them an offer where they had the chance to whether accept or reject. Is it about the free will again or what?

 

[kai]

Hmmmm, you think we should ask mountains why they refused it? Do you know a mountain near by which we can ask? yes i know a mountain nearby we can ask, but we may grow old waiting for an answer.

EDIT: Seriously, mountains were just afraid not being able to be up to the task. They TALK to God, yes, if that's what you are after. He is God, the one who created the universe. You might not believe it, but hey, the idea of a "god" to you is insane and bizarre enough that this issue is way so minor compared to it.

not at all!
If he can create the universe with a thought, then i am sure he can talk to mountains, its the mountains talking back that intrigues me, in order for them to refuse the trust they must have had the ability to choose and be afraid. Fascinating. thanks

 

[TashaN]

its the mountains talking back that intrigues me, in order for them to refuse the trust they must have had the ability to choose and be afraid. Fascinating. thanks

Indeed it's. Welcome.

I guess you would be surprised if you knew that ALL creatures on earth worship God and make prayers on it's own way.

 

[kai]

Indeed it's. Welcome.

I guess you would be surprised if you knew that ALL creatures on earth worship God and make prayers on it's own way.

No not surprised at all, are they given the choice to submit though?




(at least we have calmed down the brawl)

 

[TashaN]

No not surprised at all, are they given the choice to submit though?




(at least we have calmed down the brawl)

Hmmm, let's say, they appreciate God more than we do, and they have less stuff to wonder about than us.

 

[kai]

Hmmm, let's say, they appreciate God more than we do, and they have less stuff to wonder about than us.

do they go to heaven? do the jinn torment them or play tricks on them?

 

[TashaN]

do they go to heaven? do the jinn torment them or play tricks on them?

Ha ha. You are really something! :slap:

 

[kai]

Ha ha. You are really something! :slap:

what! i am serious do animals go to heaven ? some people think they do, what do you think?

 

[Ghostaka]

what! i am serious do animals go to heaven ? some people think they do, what do you think?

I think that if they are not being tested by Allah, then there would be no paradise or hell for animals .

Peace be upon you.

 

[kai]

I think that if they are not being tested by Allah, then there would be no paradise or hell for animals .

Peace be upon you.

so if you dont accept the trust you don't get the chance of paradise or hell ,i see you just wink out of existence. so thats what the mountains were scared of, that they would end up in hell.

 

[Ghostaka]

so if you dont accept the trust you don't get the chance of paradise or hell ,i see you just wink out of existence. so thats what the mountains were scared of, that they would end up in hell.

If they didn't want to risk being disobedient to Allah then reward or punishment would not apply right? Because they never took the test (edit: to have that "free will"). Humans and jinn however, did and that "free will" 'carries the risk of being disobedient to their Creator.

Allah knows best!

Peace be upon you.

 

[TashaN]

so thats what the mountains were scared of, that they would end up in hell.

Exactly. Adam accepted it and within few hours he found himself falling to earth. It wasn't that simple. I guess you understand the mountain's position more now.

 

[kai]

Exactly. Adam accepted it and within few hours he found himself falling to earth. It wasn't that simple. I guess you understand the mountain's position more now.

yes the mountains were scared so didn't take up the offer, maybe mountains are untrustworthy by their very nature? is it me or does this sound a little far fetched?

 

[TashaN]

yes the mountains were scared so didn't take up the offer, maybe mountains are untrustworthy by their very nature? is it me or does this sound a little far fetched?

ha ha. If you told me again that you are being serious here i gonna hang up myself.

 

[YmirGF]

ha ha. If you told me again that you are being serious here i gonna hang up myself.

But TashaN, surely you can appreciate that saying that mountains TALK to god and do not have free will, yadda yadda yadda is essentially meaningless. It's simply anthropomorphizing reality.

 

[TashaN]

But TashaN, surely you can appreciate that saying that mountains TALK to god and do not have free will, yadda yadda yadda is essentially meaningless. It's simply anthropomorphizing reality.

You better learn then about the Abrahamic God and the Abrahamic beliefs. And sorry, no offense but, that post you have quoted was directed at kai, not you.

 

[YmirGF]

You better learn then about the Abrahamic God and the Abrahamic beliefs. And sorry, no offense but, that post you have quoted was directed at kai, not you.

I am rather conversant on the alleged attributes of the trivial Abrahamic God concepts, TashaN and I fully realize that the original comment was directed at Kai. In theory, a poster on RF can respond (or not) to any post he/she or it desires. However, none of this takes away from the fact that such suppositions are simply anthropomorphic and are therefore relatively meaningless.