Racial divide

[Meesheltx]

I am just curious if the racial divide is as stong in other countries as it is here in America. Although I do recognize that racism still exists here, thats not what i'm talking about. If you go somewhere and with a lot of people, the groups tend to stay seperated. The black people hang with other like themselves and the white people do the same. I have never been one to notice or conciously think about what race a person is...but it seems like so many people can't see past that, even if its not necessarily a negative recognition.

For example, one of my friends will always tell me the color of a person when she tells me a story...why does this matter?? I guess my question is actually just, is it the same in other countries?

 

[Scott1]

There is ignorance and hatred all over the world.... sad to say.

You would be suprised how far reaching the ignorance is:

While in Somalia, I had a native born Somali man with me as an interpreter. He wore traditional Somali garb so not to be confused with us soldiers... but often the locals would come out to question what he was doing with us.

One day, he seemed particularly angry at an old man you asked him a short question... he was really upset and it was contrary to his normally pleasant demeanor. Jamali (my friends name), with tears in his eyes told me that the old man asked :"Are you a Somali, or a ******?" This old man 3,000 miles from the US refers to non-African black men using that horribly mean word.... it was shocking and upsetting for the both of us.

Ahhh... what a world.

 

[Faint]

Are you talking about the way Asians tend to hang-out mostly with other Asians (whether at school or elsewhere), or how Hispanics hang-out primarily with other Hispanics, and so forth? I've noticed this too. It doesn't seem like racism so much as wanting to be around people with similar cultural background.

 

[Quiddity]

In Mexico, it is sad to say that the more Euro you look, the more you're admired and respected. If you are short and dark, that is not the case. It's still around now.

~Victor

 

[Draka]

Are you talking about the way Asians tend to hang-out mostly with other Asians (whether at school or elsewhere), or how Hispanics hang-out primarily with other Hispanics, and so forth? I've noticed this too. It doesn't seem like racism so much as wanting to be around people with similar cultural background.

I have to agree with that one. While I was stationed in San Diego I noticed, within my command alone, several "groups". While we all would work side by side with no problems...on breaks and at lunch you could see the Phillipinos together, the Hispanics together, and so on and so on. I don't think it was racially motivated...just a glimpse of same cultured people trying to retain their culture and language. It's just a way of keeping alive that which they are apart from now.

 

[Aqualung]

I am just curious if the racial divide is as stong in other countries as it is here in America. Although I do recognize that racism still exists here, thats not what i'm talking about. If you go somewhere and with a lot of people, the groups tend to stay seperated. The black people hang with other like themselves and the white people do the same. I have never been one to notice or conciously think about what race a person is...but it seems like so many people can't see past that, even if its not necessarily a negative recognition.

For example, one of my friends will always tell me the color of a person when she tells me a story...why does this matter?? I guess my question is actually just, is it the same in other countries?

It's probably just because people like people who are like them. I grew up in a pretty white town. We had very few black people, so they mostly hung out with the white people, but the mexicans stayed together. That's probably because they like to speak spanish, they understand where the other is coming from, etc.

About describing people by colour. I think it's helpful. Like this: "Do you know John?" There's too many Johns to know if I do. "Tall guy, short hair?" Still not enough description. "Black?" Yes! Now I know who you're talking about. Colour is a fairly obvious description, so not using it to describe people is rediculous.

 

[lilithu]

It's probably just because people like people who are like them. I grew up in a pretty white town. We had very few black people, so they mostly hung out with the white people, but the mexicans stayed together. That's probably because they like to speak spanish, they understand where the other is coming from, etc.

People who study this stuff for a living agree with your observations. They say that when there are only a few minorities of a certain group, they tend to assimilate into the majority. And the majority usually doesn't have a problem with them as long as they assimilate. When there gets to be more of a certain group, they tend to cluster by themselves and retain more of their own culture. That's when problems start to arise because the majority group often feels that the minorities that don't assimilate are intentionally being different.

But as you said, everyone one wants to be with people with whom they feel comfortable, who speak the same language and have the same culture and values.

About describing people by colour. I think it's helpful. Like this: "Do you know John?" There's too many Johns to know if I do. "Tall guy, short hair?" Still not enough description. "Black?" Yes! Now I know who you're talking about. Colour is a fairly obvious description, so not using it to describe people is rediculous.

I agree.

It's also the case that when one tries to not see colour, what one ends up doing is seeing everyone as the same as oneself. People are different. What we need to do is recognize the differences and respect them, not try to "whitewash" everyone into the same mold.

 

[Aqualung]

It's also the case that when one tries to not see colour, what one ends up doing is seeing everyone as the same as oneself. People are different. What we need to do is recognize the differences and respect them, not try to "whitewash" everyone into the same mold.

Yes! Why do people spend so much time and effort trying to explain away/ignore all our wonderful differences?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The only place I have been where all the meetings were mixed and free flowing, was at senior staff meetings at Bradford college. Though I expect all colleges here would be the same.
There were about 100 of us who attended the monthly senior staff training days, and we were of all races and religions. It never broke into fixed groups at breaks, but every one mingled, and networked. If only this could be the case everywhere.

Terry__________________________-
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

 

[Malus 12:9]

Yes! Why do people spend so much time and effort trying to explain away/ignore all our wonderful differences?

I best not ask you about my pics again..:biglaugh:

But seriously racism in Australia (at least here) is immense. I am not talking about
just islam, ok Islam people, but we get aboriginals dissing whites and vice versa.
We get turks/ calling Aussies "Aussie c..." and us calling them "wog c...". It's flippin ridiculous.

 

[fromthe heart]

Most folks tend to gravitate towards someone or things comfortable to them...it really hasn't much to do with wanting to stick to their own race or culture it's just that they feel more common bound towards each other...if we reach out through that comfort zone we can find friends we might never have realized ever exsisted in our rhelm of thinking....there is worth in all we humans and to know just how much we gotta get out of that comfort zone and say Hi...my name is ___ and I'm looking forward to getting to know about you and what matters to you; we are too self absorbed to stay away and some one must make the first move...it could be YOU!!! I reach out my hand...I don't fear rejection for there is more to life than just what I might feel.

 

[jonny]

I can't speak for the whole world, but I know that the Germans complained about Turks and Africans endlessly. It was really interesting to see how they would congregate into one section of town - in Hamburg it was Wilhlemsburg. We called the island "little Istanbul" because the Turkish population was so concentrated. I also noticed discrimination against people from other European countries - especially Poland.

 

[Darkdale]

I am a firm believer in the racial divide, only insofar as it is a primarily a cultural divide. The entire concept of integrated culture baffles me. (As a fan of capitalism I am going to risk being a total and utter hypocrite here for a moment

The entire United States is being pushed closer and closer into a consume and comply mono-culture with very little class, integrity or damnit, anything of real interest at all! Different cultures should be able to live amongst each other in tolerance and peace, but we shouldn't all become one culture. Now I know that many races tend to have their own cultures and thus, insofar as we have our own cultures we should group ourselves together in those cultures and celebrate our cultural individuality!

Corporations are turning us all into a group of mindless consumers, buying into the same worthless monoculture, watching the same stupid television shows and wearing the same over-priced, over-rated clothing. Universal religions are trying to get everyone to believe the same thing, worship the same god, while our Government has taken millions of Americans and convinced us that Two parties can represent all of us! bah! That's just stupid. Millions of people, two parties, one culture. *yuck*

Monoculture is the Devil. I'm telling you; let us celebrate real diversity and let us all have our own cultures. Now, it shouldn't always go down simply racial or religious or political lines. I've known a couple non-European liberals that were more heathen than some of these conservative neo-heathens you see walkin' around. But, alas, I ramble.

The racial divide is fine, only insofar as it is a cultural divide. A racial divide for the sake of race or racism is unproductive.

 

[lilithu]

The only place I have been where all the meetings were mixed and free flowing, was at senior staff meetings at Bradford college. Though I expect all colleges here would be the same.
There were about 100 of us who attended the monthly senior staff training days, and we were of all races and religions. It never broke into fixed groups at breaks, but every one mingled, and networked. If only this could be the case everywhere.

Due to personal circumstances, I've rarely felt a sense of belonging in my life. I do not feel completely at home in my own country (because many people continue to view me as "foreign" despite the fact that I was born and raised here), nor in the country of my ancestors (because I speak and act differently from them). The only places where I personally have ever felt at home were in academics and in my UU congregation. And the reason why is because in both places our common ideals (pursuit of knowledge, a just society, etc) were more important than differences in race, nationality, religion, etc. But in a way, this still proves the same thing, people feel more comfortable around people who are more similar to them. It's just that in these settings, our common ideals were more important than our more outward features.

 

[michel]

People who study this stuff for a living agree with your observations. They say that when there are only a few minorities of a certain group, they tend to assimilate into the majority. And the majority usually doesn't have a problem with them as long as they assimilate. When there gets to be more of a certain group, they tend to cluster by themselves and retain more of their own culture. That's when problems start to arise because the majority group often feels that the minorities that don't assimilate are intentionally being different.

But as you said, everyone one wants to be with people with whom they feel comfortable, who speak the same language and have the same culture and values.


I agree.

It's also the case that when one tries to not see colour, what one ends up doing is seeing everyone as the same as oneself. People are different. What we need to do is recognize the differences and respect them, not try to "whitewash" everyone into the same mold.

As usual, you are right, lilithu; I have been on 'both sides of the fence' - when I first came to England, with a broad French accent and little knowledge of the English culture, I found it hard to make friends - in fact, now I come to think of it, i mostly made frinds with others for whom England was a foreing country - black, brown, (it matters not - the colour is nothing but a cosmetic indicator.

In Africa, i have been told that at first school, the white children gravitated to teir own group - not because we felt 'different from' the natives, but simply because we had little in common with them.

One of the best ways of examining human nature is by watching Children - they have no preconceptions; what they say is what they think - and most often more so than not, they are far less likely to be racist than their parents.

 

[Aqualung]

I am a firm believer in the racial divide, only insofar as it is a primarily a cultural divide. The entire concept of integrated culture baffles me. (As a fan of capitalism I am going to risk being a total and utter hypocrite here for a moment

The entire United States is being pushed closer and closer into a consume and comply mono-culture with very little class, integrity or damnit, anything of real interest at all! Different cultures should be able to live amongst each other in tolerance and peace, but we shouldn't all become one culture. Now I know that many races tend to have their own cultures and thus, insofar as we have our own cultures we should group ourselves together in those cultures and celebrate our cultural individuality!

Corporations are turning us all into a group of mindless consumers, buying into the same worthless monoculture, watching the same stupid television shows and wearing the same over-priced, over-rated clothing. Universal religions are trying to get everyone to believe the same thing, worship the same god, while our Government has taken millions of Americans and convinced us that Two parties can represent all of us! bah! That's just stupid. Millions of people, two parties, one culture. *yuck*

Monoculture is the Devil. I'm telling you; let us celebrate real diversity and let us all have our own cultures. Now, it shouldn't always go down simply racial or religious or political lines. I've known a couple non-European liberals that were more heathen than some of these conservative neo-heathens you see walkin' around. But, alas, I ramble.

The racial divide is fine, only insofar as it is a cultural divide. A racial divide for the sake of race or racism is unproductive.

Thank you darkdale. You expressed my thoughs very well. :clap