racism and paganism

[James Field]

How common is racism amongst the reconstructionist pagans ? I've seen something about it on Wikipedia but I doubt it's very widespread or even tolerated. What's y'all's experience with this ?

 

[Quintessence]

You're not going to find much of substance about this, but if you have the access, here are some things that might be relevant:

Heathens up Northolitics, Polemics and Contemporary Norse Paganism in Norway | Asprem | Pomegranate: The International Journal of Pagan Studies
John Michell, Radical Traditionalism and the Emerging Politics of the Pagan New Right | Hale | Pomegranate: The International Journal of Pagan Studies
Article 3 (JSTOR)
Article 4 (JSTOR)

There is barely any good demography of Neopaganism, much less an answer to a specific question like this that is politically incorrect to be asking. But dig around in the scholarly literature... there may be some things out there.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Oddly I haven't seen racist druidic groups or greek or Egyptian ones. I've only seen some racist Norse groups, which I hardly call actually adherents and are really just Neo Nazi's.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We in Hinduism recognize races and castes but do not see it as a reason for fighting anyone.

 

[Kirran]

We in Hinduism recognize races and castes but do not see it as a reason for fighting anyone.

I don't!

 

[Nietzsche]

How common is racism amongst the reconstructionist pagans ? I've seen something about it on Wikipedia but I doubt it's very widespread or even tolerated. What's y'all's experience with this ?

A racist Asatru or Heathen is a simply untenable position as far as I'm concerned. The Vikings were nothing if not a cosmopolitan people.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The most common term for people who tie Pagan paths to ethnicity is 'folkish'. These people believe that a person's ancestry determines the gods they are allowed to worship; that the gods of other civilisations or pantheons will ignore them simply because they didn't come from that society's bloodlines to a great enough extent. There are racist Kemetic groups out there who argue that the Egyptian gods will only bless or listen to the prayers of black people. It is obviously as nonsensical as suggesting that may only pray to Thor or the Morrigan if you are white or any other kind of race-oriented path. The gods speak to whom they will and I'd honestly be shocked if something as ridiculously superficial as skin colour was a factor at all.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We in Hinduism recognize races and castes but do not see it as a reason for fighting anyone.

Of course, the Gods and Goddesses are better than us, they do not make any distinctions, no special facilities to Hindus. The same law governs all..

 

[James Field]

You're not going to find much of substance about this, but if you have the access, here are some things that might be relevant:

Heathens up Northolitics, Polemics and Contemporary Norse Paganism in Norway | Asprem | Pomegranate: The International Journal of Pagan Studies
John Michell, Radical Traditionalism and the Emerging Politics of the Pagan New Right | Hale | Pomegranate: The International Journal of Pagan Studies
Article 3 (JSTOR)
Article 4 (JSTOR)

There is barely any good demography of Neopaganism, much less an answer to a specific question like this that is politically incorrect to be asking. But dig around in the scholarly literature... there may be some things out there.

Thank you for the links, and I apologize if my question was in some way offensive

 

[James Field]

The most common term for people who tie Pagan paths to ethnicity is 'folkish'. These people believe that a person's ancestry determines the gods they are allowed to worship; that the gods of other civilisations or pantheons will ignore them simply because they didn't come from that society's bloodlines to a great enough extent. There are racist Kemetic groups out there who argue that the Egyptian gods will only bless or listen to the prayers of black people. It is obviously as nonsensical as suggesting that may only pray to Thor or the Morrigan if you are white or any other kind of race-oriented path. The gods speak to whom they will and I'd honestly be shocked if something as ridiculously superficial as skin colour was a factor at all.

this seems odd considering how the pagans of antiquity seemed fine with adopting Gods and Goddesses from other pantheons to include in their worship or as a main deity

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

this seems odd considering how the pagans of antiquity seemed fine with adopting Gods and Goddesses from other pantheons to include in their worship or as a main deity

Not really; back then the gods one worshipped was inexorably tied in with a person's local culture or clan. As an example the Greeks forbade non-Hellenes from entering Greek temples for some time. This eventually changed; whether to do with non-Hellenes being directly exposed to Hellenistic culture thanks to Alexander or because of the Roman conquest of Greece, non-Greeks were eventually permitted to take part in the Eleusinian Mysteries at the very least. Not all societies were like this, of course. Some were more relaxed about religious practice.

 

[James Field]

Not really; back then the gods one worshipped was inexorably tied in with a person's local culture or clan. As an example the Greeks forbade non-Hellenes from entering Greek temples for some time. This eventually changed; whether to do with non-Hellenes being directly exposed to Hellenistic culture thanks to Alexander or because of the Roman conquest of Greece, non-Greeks were eventually permitted to take part in the Eleusinian Mysteries at the very least. Not all societies were like this, of course. Some were more relaxed about religious practice.

I thought that worship of Mithras and certain Eqyptian deities was common in the Roman Empire ? By the way nice username

 

[Aupmanyav]

this seems odd considering how the pagans of antiquity seemed fine with adopting Gods and Goddesses from other pantheons to include in their worship or as a main deity

There were conflicts. In India, there was a great conflict between the Aryan and indigenous Gods and Goddesses. In the end indigenous Gods and Goddesses emerged supreme (Shiva, Durga). Aryan Gods were relagated to secondary position except for Vishnu and Saraswati. Actually Vishnu now has become the most popular God in the Hindu pantheon after assimilating with the Indigenous Gods like Nrisimha, Rama and Krishna..

 

[Jainarayan]

The most common term for people who tie Pagan paths to ethnicity is 'folkish'.

I think it's their attempt to veil their racism, or rather, ethnocentricity. I don't necessarily believe it's hatred for other groups, except in the fringe white supremacists. For anyone interested, The Asatru Folk Assembly is folkish Asatru Folk Assembly - Home The Troth is universalist. Welcome to The Troth

 

[Jainarayan]

Thank you for the links, and I apologize if my question was in some way offensive

It's not offensive, it's a fact that they exist. It's not something we are proud of.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I thought that worship of Mithras and certain Eqyptian deities was common in the Roman Empire ? By the way nice username

Thank you. Mithras and Isis are, again, examples of the religiously ecumenical nature of the Roman Empire born out of the necessity that the Empire granted citizenship to those who were non-Roman by birth. Prior to the rise of Rome's Empire worship of Isis would have been largely confined to the lands controlled or greatly influenced by the Pharaohs. The same goes for the Greek deities pre-Alexander. Largely, universal worship of a particular culture's god(s) prior to the Empire would have been the exception, not the rule. Unless of course one's polytheism is soft and you want to argue that Jupiter and Zeus are the same god.

 

[James Field]

Thank you. Mithras and Isis are, again, examples of the religiously ecumenical nature of the Roman Empire born out of the necessity that the Empire granted citizenship to those who were non-Roman by birth. Prior to the rise of Rome's Empire worship of Isis would have been largely confined to the lands controlled or greatly influenced by the Pharaohs. The same goes for the Greek deities pre-Alexander. Largely, universal worship of a particular culture's god(s) prior to the Empire would have been the exception, not the rule. Unless of course one's polytheism is soft and you want to argue that Jupiter and Zeus are the same god.

Oh I see now, thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

[James Field]

I think it's their attempt to veil their racism, or rather, ethnocentricity. I don't necessarily believe it's hatred for other groups, except in the fringe white supremacists. For anyone interested, The Asatru Folk Assembly is folkish Asatru Folk Assembly - Home The Troth is universalist. Welcome to The Troth

What about people with multiple ethnicities that are still of European descent ? Like, say, someone with Germanic ancestry from one side of the family and Spanish on the other or Celtic on one side and Slavic on the other ? Or do they just look at Germanic Heathenry as a kind of default for those of European descent ?
I understand that Paganism isn't the only religion out there with a group of racists or bigots, these kind of people are in all sections of society. I can also understand some of these Folkish people, though not being racist or hateful, as being viewed as such

 

[Jainarayan]

What about people with multiple ethnicities that are still of European descent ? Like, say, someone with Germanic ancestry from one side of the family and Spanish on the other or Celtic on one side and Slavic on the other ? Or do they just look at Germanic Heathenry as a kind of default for those of European descent ?
I understand that Paganism isn't the only religion out there with a group of racists or bigots, these kind of people are in all sections of society. I can also understand some of these Folkish people, though not being racist or hateful, as being viewed as such

Truly, I have no idea if they have even considered that. I don't know where they draw a line. Personally I think, and I could get crap for it (like it would ever be the first or last time ), they are ignorant. No one is what they think they are. I harp on my DNA test, which revealed that Norman DNA is present in Sicilians who don't know it; Slavs migrated to the Germanic lands and lived there for centuries; the Norse settled Russia. How much Swedish, Norman and Anglo-Saxon blood (and I have some) do I need to be Germanic? So who is and is not Germanic?

 

[James Field]

Truly, I have no idea if they have even considered that. I don't know where they draw a line. Personally I think, and I could get crap for it (like it would ever be the first or last time ), they are ignorant. No one is what they think they are. I harp on my DNA test, which revealed that Norman DNA is present in Sicilians who don't know it; Slavs migrated to the Germanic lands and lived there for centuries; the Norse settled Russia. How much Swedish, Norman and Anglo-Saxon blood (and I have some) do I need to be Germanic? So who is and is not Germanic?

that, for me, has always been a point of mine when talking about Race or ethnicity; people often have various genetic backgrounds and it doesn't really make much sense to single out one characteristic or background to describe your ethnicity or race.