Ragnarok

[Breathe]

Hey guys, what do you take from the story of Ragnarök?

Do you believe it's a literal event [although not necessarily on Earth or in this universe or anything, like another realm or something], or metaphorical?

Do you believe that you will end up dying a second death and cease existing, or is there something else that you take from it, for example, even if things the odds are overwhelming, things will always prevail?


Looking for your opinions

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Hey guys, what do you take from the story of Ragnarök?

Do you believe it's a literal event [although not necessarily on Earth or in this universe or anything, like another realm or something], or metaphorical?

Do you believe that you will end up dying a second death and cease existing, or is there something else that you take from it, for example, even if things the odds are overwhelming, things will always prevail?


Looking for your opinions

I knew this question was going to come up soon... haha

I'm not too sure. I'd love to thing it was a real event, but I'm not too sure about that. I like to think of it as a metaphor, and I usually refer to Ragnarok as the Christianization days. The Gods "died" through Christianity, and now they are coming back. People fought for the Gods and everything, yet they died as foretold. Yet some were said to live on. And now the Gods are returning.

 

[Breathe]

I knew this question was going to come up soon... haha

I'd love to thing it was a real event,

How come? Could you elaborate more on this please?

The Gods "died" through Christianity, and now they are coming back. People fought for the Gods and everything, yet they died as foretold. Yet some were said to live on. And now the Gods are returning.

So you don't believe that one will die a second death or anything like that?

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

How come? Could you elaborate more on this please?


So you don't believe that one will die a second death or anything like that?

I mean, I think it would really be cool if it was an actual event, and I got to fight against the Giants and the Dead alongside the Gods. But I'm not to sure that that would be what happens.


And I felt that Ragnarok has already happened, and it was the Christianization of Europe. So no, no second Death

But I don't speak for all Asatruar

 

[Revasser]

Keeping in mind that I'm not someone who likes to claim the title "heathen" but do lean heavily in that direction...

The idea of Ragnarok being the Christianisation of Europe and the figurative "death" of the gods is certainly one way to look at things. Especially if you like the part about some of the gods surviving and/or returning and how that might relate to the modern day revival of the old beliefs of Northern Europe and the cyclical nature of most pre-Christian European belief systems.

Indeed, some say that when Christianity swept over that part of Europe, one of the tools the missionaries used was to say that Ragnarok had indeed happened, the gods were already dead and that the last/first two humans - Lif and Lifthrasir - were in fact the Adam and Eve of the Genesis story. Whether that is true or just speculation on the part of amateur historians I don't know, but I've heard it said and it sounds plausible enough.

Personally, I tend to think it's just a story. Something to give an end point to the myth, something that casts a shadow and influence over everything else. It certainly is a story that suits the deeply fatalistic outlook that was generally held by Germanic cultures at that time. "Fate goes ever as she shall" and the story of the Doom of the Gods is the ultimate expression of that. Even the gods, even existence itself is subject to the spinning of fate.

I have to disagree with Klaufi that it would be cool if it were a real event. The idea of fighting and dying a second time while the world burns around me is not my idea of a good time. Odin certainly doesn't seem to think so, given that his whole dour mien seems to be largely due to having complete knowledge of the certainty of the end and the violent destruction of himself, his kin and his works. I'm sure such knowledge would put me in a bad mood also.

For myself, I'm not a literal believer, so I don't think I'll get to live a second time, let alone fight and die a second time. But the story still carries a lot of meaning for me.

 

[WayFarer]

Brother Odin,
Ragnarok is the end of this cycle/epoch. This cycle, we are told in the Sagas, will end in fire. It started in ice, so its poetic.

As far as:
"Do you believe that you will end up dying a second death and cease existing, or is there something else that you take from it, for example, even if things the odds are overwhelming, things will always prevail?"
It is viewed that all things (even Gods) will die. It is also believed that, to one degree or another, reincarnation takes place.

It can be looked at like a simple program:

10 Born
20 Live (Life)
30 Die
40 Judged
45 If life Judged "heroic" goto Valhalla/Fólkvangr (half to half to the other)
If life judged "good enough" goto Hel (not with 2 "L"s - this one is alright)
Else (life judge "nithing") then goto Niflhel (not good)
50 If Epoch equals "Ragnarok" (don't know what this might be called next cycle) goto 100 (GodWar subroutine)
Else goto 10
100 If in Valhalla/Fólkvangr Fight
Else goto 10
110 Die
115 Epoch " " (reset)
120 goto 10
​

So basically life is a place that you go to to work on becoming heroic (losing fear). Once this virtue (heroism) is perfected you no longer have to be reincarnated during this cycle. Otherwise you go to Hel and be reunited with those you have lost in life rethink how you might can do better next time and later (same cycle) you get reborn and see if you can. Sort of Dharmic really. Which shouldn't be considered too unusual considering that Orlog (the original law/order that supports all) is a core concept and is Dharma like.

 

[WayFarer]

There is a pretty interesting write up on the cycles/epochs here: Orlog: The Procession of the Ages of the World that may be of interest.