"Real Housewives" star has new book that advocates marital rape

[Me Myself]

They sound like bullies at best..bullying a woman into sex.Its not "moody"..and she referred to it being 2 days..

You want to defend that?

Why bullying her? If he is moody, he is moody.

It doesnt need to be an intentional deliberate attempt to coherce her for waldo's sake that's pathetic paranoid.

Bullying her would be calling her names or abusing her somehow. We dont know if he did that. We only know his wife says she feels he is more moody when he doesnt have sex, and now you think he is a bully.

You draw conclusions incredibly quick on this. Thats very problematic.

 

[Me Myself]

It's not just being moody it's everything he said about how he views women's right to refuse sex.

Now you are changing what you previously said.

You said that being moody for not having sex is enough to be a rapist, because it was emotional blackmail.

Thats paranoid and ridiculous.

A woman has every right to feel moody if her husband doesnt hace sex with her and so happens the other way around and none of both of those things mean blackmail in an on themselves and beliieving they do in and on itselves its paranoid and ridiculous.

 

[Father Heathen]

Her response is putting her husband first. And that marriage works when people put their spouses first.

The disconnect is where there doesn't seem to be an acknowledgement from Melissa Gorga that her husband puts her first too. And where he was quoted, if taken out of context, I don't think she really addressed exactly how it was taken out of context, except that this type of practice is what works in their marriage. Not how her husband doesn't actually rape her (and here's why as to what I said elsewhere or Joe said elsewhere in the book, which I would have expected her to explain if she wanted to refute it).

I don't think she fully addressed it except to say she's disgusted by the accusations. What does she have to back it up by how her husband respects her?

Unhealthy or not, it was her choice to get into, and continue to stay in, such a relationship with such a character. Her standards. Her decisions. The ball is ultimately in her court. Even if he isn't a rapst, the guy is still very likely a douche, but she gave him her seal of approval regardless.

 

[DallasApple]

Unhealthy or not, it was her choice to get into, and continue to stay in, such a relationship with such a character. Her standards. Her decisions. The ball is ultimately in her court. Even if he isn't a rapst, the guy is still very likely a douche, but she gave him her seal of approval regardless.

Whatever ..they wrote a book describing it...It will be scrutiized..So far he's an ***....

 

[Father Heathen]

Whatever ..they wrote a book describing it...It will be scrutiized..So far he's an ***....

I don't doubt that the whole cast is rather scummy, but that's not the point. The issue was about presumptions regarding rape and victimhood.

 

[Me Myself]

I don't doubt that the whole cast is rather scummy, but that's not the point. The issue was about presumptions regarding rape and victimhood.

You know that if you are not indifferent or happy about less sex, then you can only be bullying your wife and most definetely are having blackmail rape sex with her the next time you do it?

I didnt, but I am learning so much here.

 

[Kerr]

Ripping someons clothe off after a no in a context that is not roleplaying, I wouldnt know.

Gentle physical persuasion with someone with which you are already in a sexual relationship on the other hand can be completely okay.

The verbal part of communication is minimal in comparison with other factors anyways. The tone of a no does tell you if it can be persuaded and the context of the relationship which methods of persuasion are acceptable.

I didnt think we where talking about gentle persuasion .

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I just googled this up: Real Housewives' Melissa Gorga: It's Disgusting That People Think I'm Promoting Marital Rape | E! Online

It's whats-her-face's response to the reaction toward those comments.

Yeah except she left out "if YOUR wife says NO turn her around and rip her clothes off...just give us what we want."
Which is what people have been complaining about.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Look, I'm not arguing that forcing sex is wrong and that we have the right as individuals to refuse. We're on the same page.

But, I can tell you that there's sometimes a dynamic between a married couple, when sex is viewed as something given to one another freely. The "fight" may not be a fight in the sense that you're imagining. The sex is still consentual.

I didn't love my ex husband. And it was very hard having sex with him for that reason. He often bugged me for it and I often didn't want it but would give in. NEVER did I liken this to rape, as I was his wife. It was never done forcefully. It was more of an annoyance when he bugged me.

The "fight" wasn't an objection in the sense that I was being violated or feared being violated. We had a certain comfort level with each other to where that just wasn't an issue. And though there were deeper issues as to why I didn't enjoy sex with him, my reasons for not wanting sex were usually quite practical - I was exhausted - I had to get up too early the next morning.

Perhaps I can look at this from another perspective because I'm far from being a push over. I won't give it if it's something that I'm not comfortable with. But, I totally get the dynamic of a married couple and their trust. You may not be in the mood, but when there's love and trust (or an assemblance of it, as was the case with my ex husband), rape would never cross your mind unless that trust was broken and something violent happened.

Getting upset with someone for not having sex with you every single day is questionable. You say every one has a right to be angry but how does their anger effect their partner and their right to say "no?" No it's not ok to be angry at you partner everytime they refuse sex, that is not ok because you are making your partner feel like they can't say no because then they have to put up with your anger and mood swings.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Unhealthy or not, it was her choice to get into, and continue to stay in, such a relationship with such a character. Her standards. Her decisions. The ball is ultimately in her court. Even if he isn't a rapst, the guy is still very likely a douche, but she gave him her seal of approval regardless.

Sure, and what happens in her house is her business, but now her words are out in the public as advocacy for what makes a great marriage. It has become everyone's business now. Her husbands words are out there as advice for what makes a great marriage, too. And when a marital advice book is published, based entirely on their experience, then the public has material to compare and contrast with their own lives and with their own standards.

If the book was never published, we'd be none the wiser as to what those two feel are worthy of sharing with the world. But it's out there. And we have ourselves a debate on those two personally as well as what advice they're giving.

There was another seemingly innocuous yet suspiciously dysfunctional quote from her by pointing out that she respects her husband by making sure she doesn't poop in the house when he's at home.

I find that kind of mindset infantilizing and insulting to what "respect" means. And to publish these thoughts as part-narrative, part-advice, I think lends itself to the kind of criticism from the public that it's getting.

 

[DallasApple]

Exactly Mystic.Its not like a biography.And they are including their dysfunctions.They are recommending /advising this is how to do marriage RIGHT.How to have a successful marriage.Which opens up every piece of "advice" to debate.

This is what every woman wants? Is not just sharing their story.She makes blanket statements about what feminine and masculine roles are SUPPOSED to be followed by "you can say what you want but its true".

O.K so we are saying what we want..

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Some women are okay with the concept of submitting to their husbands and living in a patriarch-focused household.

This may not be a comfortable or healthy concept to me or to you.

I have to accept the possibility that I could be wrong in assuming that a woman in such a marriage, couldn't be content.

Again, I state that I support power-distinct relationships when (1) there is informed consent, and (2) both partners understand the dom calls the shots while the sub calls the boundaries. There are women that like to be dominated, but they also know that "no" means "no" (or the safe word) and maintain their bodily integrity and autonomy. It's the mark of a healthy power-distinct relationship IMO.

I haven't seen Mrs. Gorga explain where she can hold up a red flag to Joe's behavior or demands from her where he respects her. That is concerning by itself, but giving it as marital advice is where I draw a big fat line. The thing is, from what has been shared so far, I don't see the Gorga household as a patriarchal system with a respectful dom/sub dynamic.

Like I said, I admire your objectivity and your willingness to take a stance of where you don't have all the information at your disposal to make a judgement either way. Let's just say that I'm skeptical of the health of their marriage and think there are some red flags of dysfunction. The advice given in the book is terrible.

 

[DallasApple]

Getting upset with someone for not having sex with you every single day is questionable. You say every one has a right to be angry but how does their anger effect their partner and their right to say "no?" No it's not ok to be angry at you partner everytime they refuse sex, that is not ok because you are making your partner feel like they can't say no because then they have to put up with your anger and mood swings.

Not only that what we are talking about now is they are promoting this as a way to have a successful marriage.Can you imagine going to a marriage counselor (that isn't a quack) and them advising the man have a fit of anger if he doesn't get sex every day?That way she will learn if she wants to avoid that she will just do it?And if she still 'fights it" sometimes fight her back and win?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Exactly Mystic.Its not like a biography.And they are including their dysfunctions.They are recommending /advising this is how to do marriage RIGHT.How to have a successful marriage.Which opens up every piece of "advice" to debate.

This is what every woman wants? Is not just sharing their story.She makes blanket statements about what feminine and masculine roles are SUPPOSED to be followed by "you can say what you want but its true".

O.K so we are saying what we want..

I do know that hubbie and I would wonder what the **** was wrong with each other if we were afraid of pooping in our house while the other was around. Or that if we really have to poop, and the other was around, that we drive to the corner Burger King in order to save the other person from acknowledging that....yes....everybody poops. Including our spouses.

Advice from the book? Don't poop in the house.

But see now Joe will realize that his wife does in fact poop in real life after reading the book. Damn it. The jig's up now. She'll have to explain to Joe that when she poops, it's flowers and rainbows in the hopes he doesn't get grossed out by her bodily functions as a human being.

 

[Koldo]

And the last line....."Just give us what we want". That kind of advice for spouses doesn't work for ANY gender. Regardless of whether it's same sex or opposite sex marriages. It's dehumanizing, thoughtless, and screams entitlement when not carefully discussed through power-distinct relationships for doms/subs.

Actually, on the context that sentence was said, i don't see it as any of these things.

I take to it to mean: Women don't realize how easy men are. Just give us what we want, and we will give you what you want.

 

[Koldo]

My rant is over. Share your thoughts?

I don't think they are fit to give advices about relationships.

The husband sounds terribly simple-minded. And the wife seems too willingly to be submissive to him.

 

[DallasApple]

All we have is the words they wrote down and distributed to the public.Whats the point in discussing it if each and every appalling piece of advice you say "well maybe they didn't mean it that way." Or "you can't take that at face value."

The entire angle is based on her appeasing and pleasing the man without her considering herself other than avoiding his temper or making it worse for herself...There is no mutuality.Like ladies you have two bad choices in marriage..that's a FACT..I learned the hard way that 'this' choice is the lesser evil if you want your marriage to work.

And stating as "fact" what is feminine and what is masculine.Including the notion that its not feminine to have a BOWEL MOVEMENT..Uh ...no .../its HUMAN..But like Mystic is pointing to doesn't sound like she's "allowed" to maintain her bodily integrity or autonomy.

She even said something like its difficult or a challenge as to having to figure out how to manage that.GOING to the BATHROOM ???You are giving advice on how to have a good marriage and its a challenge to manage a baseline human bodily function without ruining your image in your husbands eyes?

 

[Koldo]

Getting upset with someone for not having sex with you every single day is questionable. You say every one has a right to be angry but how does their anger effect their partner and their right to say "no?" No it's not ok to be angry at you partner everytime they refuse sex, that is not ok because you are making your partner feel like they can't say no because then they have to put up with your anger and mood swings.

If your partner gets angry when you refuse to have sex with him, and you don't find that to be acceptable, then talk to him about it and/or break up the relationship. Simple as that.

 

[dawny0826]

Again, I state that I support power-distinct relationships when (1) there is informed consent, and (2) both partners understand the dom calls the shots while the sub calls the boundaries. There are women that like to be dominated, but they also know that "no" means "no" (or the safe word) and maintain their bodily integrity and autonomy. It's the mark of a healthy power-distinct relationship IMO.

I haven't seen Mrs. Gorga explain where she can hold up a red flag to Joe's behavior or demands from her where he respects her. That is concerning by itself, but giving it as marital advice is where I draw a big fat line. The thing is, from what has been shared so far, I don't see the Gorga household as a patriarchal system with a respectful dom/sub dynamic.

Like I said, I admire your objectivity and your willingness to take a stance of where you don't have all the information at your disposal to make a judgement either way. Let's just say that I'm skeptical of the health of their marriage and think there are some red flags of dysfunction. The advice given in the book is terrible.

The advice I've seen from the book is ridiculously daft, but, I'm not in the position to project what translates as happiness, normalcy and comfort on another family.

Again, I don't know enough about the Gorgas to draw confident conclusions as to what's going on in their bedroom and how their dynamic impacts one another.

I'm not a mental health professional or a relationship specialist of any sort and I don't feel qualified to make the type of statement that Joe doesn't respect his wife in the auspices of a dom/sub dynamic - assuming that this is legitimately the type of dynamic that this couple, who are essentially actors and exploitationists, share.

I respect the opinion that you've presented and can understand your reasons for drawing your conclusions and I respect your acknowledgement of my need for objectivity.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The advice I've seen from the book is ridiculously daft, but, I'm not in the position to project what translates as happiness, normalcy and comfort on another family.

Again, I don't know enough about the Gorgas to draw confident conclusions as to what's going on in their bedroom and how their dynamic impacts one another.

I'm not a mental health professional or a relationship specialist of any sort and I don't feel qualified to make the type of statement that Joe doesn't respect his wife in the auspices of a dom/sub dynamic - assuming that this is legitimately the type of dynamic that this couple, who are essentially actors and exploitationists, share.

I respect the opinion that you've presented and can understand your reasons for drawing your conclusions and I respect your acknowledgement of my need for objectivity.

This is completely fair. I've always respected your opinions, Dawny, and totally appreciate the insight you've presented in the thread. It's allowed me to let go of some stomach acid regarding the book and some of the excerpts.