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Reality is a theocracy

Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
This is what I believe:

Reality is a theocracy…

God is in charge of all reality, of all his creation

We humans are his subjects, subjects of his Kingdom of Heaven

The Kingdom of Heaven is a theocracy

It is literally ruled by God

Not liking this does not make it untrue :p

But I believe God wants humankind to govern itself democratically

God is our (theocratic) LORD, he has given us laws and he will ultimately enforce them

He has given us plenty of advice too

But (I believe) the good news is this: the Lord of creation is also our father, our dad

We are sons and daughters of the king whether we like it or not

Basically: I believe we humans who seek a relationship with God can become royalty of the Kingdom of Heaven!

Therefore, I believe anyone can become a princess or a prince!

Discuss.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
This is what I believe:

Reality is a theocracy…

God is in charge of all reality, of all his creation

We humans are his subjects, subjects of his Kingdom of Heaven

The Kingdom of Heaven is a theocracy

It is literally ruled by God

Not liking this does not make it untrue :p

But I believe God wants humankind to govern itself democratically

God is our (theocratic) LORD, he has given us laws and he will ultimately enforce them

He has given us plenty of advice too

But (I believe) the good news is this: the Lord of creation is also our father, our dad

We are sons and daughters of the king whether we like it or not

Basically: I believe we humans who seek a relationship with God can become royalty of the Kingdom of Heaven!

Therefore, I believe anyone can become a princess or a prince!

Discuss.

This is total BS. An omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us. God is perfect, whole, and complete without any needs or desires. Since needs and desires are the source of all evil in the World God is absolute goodness. So please explain to me why would God have a need or desire to "rule" ? This makes no sense at all.

It seems to me an omnipotent God of unconditional love would be slightly more egalitarian in His chosen form of divine government. Just because you crave subjugation does not make it true.

I think people are projecting human limitations over God. Human's desire monarchy and power. Humans desire to be all-powerful. Everything in your post seems to me to be what you want Heaven to be like.

Not liking what I am saying does not make it untrue.
 
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Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
So please explain to me why would God have a need or desire to "rule" ? This makes no sense at al.
Because he is interested in human affairs

Because he is concerned for our welfare

Because is interested in us both collectively and as individuals

Because he is our father

But he does not want to mollycoddle us, hence he allows reality and nature to take its course...

It seems to me an omnipotent God of unconditional love would be slightly more egalitarian in His chosen form of divine government.
It's perfectly egalitarian

All humans are equal, under the Supreme Being

Because all humans are equal...

But the Supreme Being is supreme

Simply: as humans we are equal to each other but not equal to the supreme being!
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Because he is interested in human affairs
Because he is concerned for our welfare
Because is interested in us both collectively and as individuals
Because he is our father
But he does not want to mollycoddle us, hence he allows reality and nature to take its course...

You have no idea what God wants. God is beyond our comprehension. People pretending to speak for God is the height of human arrogance. There is possibly no greater sin than pretending to be God.

It's perfectly egalitarian
All humans are equal, under the Supreme Being
Because all humans are equal...
But the Supreme Being is supreme
Simply: as humans we are equal to each other but not equal to the supreme being!
[/QUOTE]

What you are describing is not egalitarian at all. You can't have a lord without slaves. You can't have a king without subjects. God has no need to be "supreme". Humans have imperfections. God is perfect.

You may think subjugation is our natural state. I do not.


A god who desires you to kneel is a lesser god.
 

Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
You have no idea what God wants. God is beyond our comprehension. People pretending to speak for God is the height of human arrogance. There is possibly no greater sin than pretending to be God.
I do not pretend to speak for him

I am merely explaining reality as I see it, as millions of other people do, indeed as anyone who expresses a religious opinion does

Maybe I am wrong

In time, I will know

You may think subjugation is our natural state. I do not.
I don't see how inequality means subjugation

He is greater than us, yes - unequal in that sense

But in capacity not in worth - a kind of equality, I admit

A god who desires you to kneel is a lesser god.
I do not believe God expects us to kneel, or grovel before him

See this old post of mine:

worshipping is not grovelling
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I do not believe God expects us to kneel, or grovel before him
See this old post of mine:
worshipping is not grovelling

I agree. An omnipotent god needs absolute nothing from us. This includes kneeling and groveling.

Worship - show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.

Having reverence for God is one thing. Adoring or honoring God is having a lack of reverence in my opinion. This is because it assumes God wants to be adored or God wants to be honored. Any god who needs to be adored or honored is a lesser god.

We are all attracted or drawn to God because it fulfills our desire to experience His absolute beauty and perfection. God's perfection is a cure for our own imperfection. This is why God is so popular.

However, there is a darker side to a religion built on obedience to authority. I think this may be my least favorite aspect of Christianity. Monarchy is a form of government. I find it just amazingly self-serving the form of government found the King James Bible is exactly the one King James was trying to legitimize. I will never be able to get past King James writings on this subject:

http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/hum2/James_I_Divine.pdf

King James was advocating the divine rights of kings.

Divine right of kings - Wikipedia

"The divine right of kings, divine right, or God's mandate is a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. It stems from a specific metaphysical framework in which the king (or queen) is pre-selected as an heir prior to his birth; by pre-selecting the king's physical manifestation, the governed populace actively (rather than merely passively) hands the metaphysical selection of the king's soul – which will inhabit the body and thereby rule them – over to God. In this way, the "divine right" originates as a metaphysical act of humility or submission towards the Godhead. Consequentially, it asserts that a monarch (e.g. a king) is subject to no earthly authority, deriving the right to rule directly from a divine authority, like the monotheist will of God. The monarch is thus not subject to the will of his people, of the aristocracy, or of any other estate of the realm. It implies that only divine authority can judge an unjust monarch and that any attempt to depose, dethrone or restrict their powers runs contrary to God's will and may constitute a sacrilegious act. It is often expressed in the phrase "by the Grace of God", attached to the titles of a reigning monarch; although this right does not make the monarch the same as a sacred king. The divine right has been a key element for legitimising many absolute monarchies."

The Bible is government propaganda in support of monarchy. The phase "by the Grace of God" and "Your grace" are all social conditioning propaganda. You cannot have a Lord without slaves. The idea of exalting, worshiping, and absolute loyalty to the "Lord" punishable by eternal suffering for not obeying is just social conditioning to be transferred to King James. I think the Bible was written by men so the men in power can use it to condition the masses to be obedient to authority.

What King James wanted was for people to worship God with obedience, loyalty, and subjugation to authority so he could then step in and claim he was not only a human being, a king, but he was actually a manifestation of God himself in human form. This has been going on for thousands of years. The king gets people to believe he is God. And then the king gets people to fight wars in order to create an empire. Millions of people die because people crave subjugation.

I doubt very much our omnipotent God of unconditional love requires anything from us which includes to worship Him in any capacity. Reverence yes, adulation and honoring no. Reverence is just reverence. Worship includes more than just reverence. Worship is an act of obedience in relationship to authority.

Maybe I'm wrong and I will suffer eternal damnation. But until then I will continue to have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love who is not looking to enslave me.
 
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Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
assumes God wants to be adored or God wants to be honored. Any god who needs to be adored or honored is a lesser god.
Never mind the words "Adored" and "Honoured"

What about "Loved"?

Doesn't everyone want to be loved?

I doubt very much our omnipotent God of unconditional love requires anything from us which includes to worship Him in any capacity. Reverence yes, adulation and honoring no
I agree

I will continue to have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love who is not looking to enslave me.
I don't believe theocracy is slavery - if it is actually God who is doing the ruling rather than those who take it upon themselves to speak for him...

And I do believe God has unconditional love for all his children - not conditional on grovelling
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Never mind the words "Adored" and "Honoured"
What about "Loved"?
Doesn't everyone want to be loved?

People who are needy require or want to be loved. Being able to meet all your own needs is what it means to be an adult.

I don't believe theocracy is slavery - if it is actually God who is doing the ruling rather than those who take it upon themselves to speak for him...
And I do believe God has unconditional love for all his children - not conditional on grovelling
[/QUOTE]

Then stop using the language of slavery pretending it isn't. Words like "lord" and "worship" are slavery words.

God does not "rule". God just exists.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Simply: as humans we are equal to each other but not equal to the supreme being!

My frame of reference is that we are equal to the supreme being in our deepest selves but don't know it.

Any god who needs to be adored or honored is a lesser god.

The key word is "needs". My worship is not out of some need of a god but is a spontaneous response to recognition of the Divine.
 

Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
People who are needy require or want to be loved. Being able to meet all your own needs is what it means to be an adult.
The need for love is a powerful psychological need

People meet each other's needs

That's what it means to be a social being

Then stop using the language of slavery pretending it isn't. Words like "lord" and "worship" are slavery words.

God does not "rule". God just exists.
OK, fair enough:

"father" and not "lord"
"respect" and not "worship"
"administrate" rather than "rule"

Is that better? Does that work for you?
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
A way of participating in the life and works of the Kingdom?
That doesn't really mean anything though, especially if literally everyone can have the same title anyway. I'm sorry if this seems harsh on your personal beliefs but it all just sounds like empty feel-good rhetoric that hasn't really been thought out.
 

Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
it all just sounds like empty feel-good rhetoric that hasn't really been thought out.
Maybe it is, maybe it is...

But forget that prince and princess stuff

I think any person can have a relationship with God

I think "child" is a good analogy, better than prince/princess
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This is what I believe:

Reality is a theocracy…

God is in charge of all reality, of all his creation

We humans are his subjects, subjects of his Kingdom of Heaven

The Kingdom of Heaven is a theocracy

It is literally ruled by God

Not liking this does not make it untrue :p

But I believe God wants humankind to govern itself democratically

God is our (theocratic) LORD, he has given us laws and he will ultimately enforce them

He has given us plenty of advice too

But (I believe) the good news is this: the Lord of creation is also our father, our dad

We are sons and daughters of the king whether we like it or not

Basically: I believe we humans who seek a relationship with God can become royalty of the Kingdom of Heaven!

Therefore, I believe anyone can become a princess or a prince!

Discuss.

But believing its true doesn't make it true either.

God is not in charge of reality. He doesn't give advice. He doesn't want a relationship with us. and because we can't literally talk to him, he can't defend himself. Believers do it for him.

You'd need to get pass the basics of establishing god exists, definition, and validity of this god's nature over others before we derive at truth that's not based on belief, opinion, and faith.
 
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