Reasons To Believe In Yeshua/Jesus Christ Our Lord

[timothy1027]

You made some good perceptions, that should dispel the atheist's belief that proof of God's existence is devoid of any evidence.

Atheism seems to be illogical to me. Agnostic is much more "politically correct."

 

[DNB]

Atheism seems to be illogical to me. Agnostic is much more "politically correct."

Yes, good point - something very insidious about one who claims to be agnostic - they can't be accused of either credulity or defiance/blindness - both sides covered.

 

[danieldemol]

You believe in a '...God that is disinterested in the material realm..'?
Well then, your God is not physical but spirit as far as His ontology is concerned, I imagine?
And, yet, you don't attribute His efforts in creating the universe (physical entity), which your previous posts on this thread appear to assert?
What or where then, is God's involvement, impact, or influence, in anything within the universe, or outside?
He must have left His mark somewhere, or has a purpose in something, for you to draw the conclusion that He exists?

I believe God intervenes in the spirit realm, *not* in the material realm.

If there was any language of mine that suggested to you that God intervenes in or created the material realm Im happy to review it with you.

 

[danieldemol]

I see the universe as friendly and carefully managed.

So friendly that children are carefully managed to be given childhood lukemia, the sun was carefully managed so that it would likely go red giant before humans have developed the means to overcome the speed of light necessary to traverse the vast distances necessary to escape it's orbit into a friendlier orbit etc no doubt in my view.

 

[DNB]

I believe God intervenes in the spirit realm, *not* in the material realm.

If there was any language of mine that suggested to you that God intervenes in or created the material realm Im happy to review it with you.

No, you didn't imply at all that God involves Himself in the material realm, as I stated. So, I'm not sure why you asked me that question?

But, you didn't say yet, from what evidence you drew your conclusion from that God even exists. Although, you said that this conviction of your was irrational, I believe?

You have a rather peculiar view - the two realms, spiritual and material, never meet? Aren't men spiritual - they pray to God - where and how did this connection occur?
Could your God create a universe - what type of God is He i.e. all powerful, transcendent, omniscient?

 

[Colt]

So friendly that children are carefully managed to be given childhood lukemia, the sun was carefully managed so that it would likely go red giant before humans have developed the means to overcome the speed of light necessary to traverse the vast distances necessary to escape it's orbit into a friendlier orbit etc no doubt in my view.

Yes, that’s correct. This world was never our permanent home. Everything we know has an ending. Many of the diseases that we still struggle with would have been weeded out by Adam and Eve (who came to our wold to replace the fallen administration) had they not been caught up in the Lucifer rebellion.

 

[danieldemol]

No, you didn't imply at all that God involves Himself in the material realm, as I stated.
But, you didn't say yet, from what evidence you drew your conclusion from that God even exists. Although, you said that this conviction of your was irrational, I believe?

I didn't draw the conclusion that God exists from evidence, I assumed it to be true.

You have a rather peculiar view - the two realms, spiritual and material, never meet? Aren't men spiritual - they pray to God - where and how did this connection occur?

Praying to God is a material act. It could be done even if there were no God in my view. For example people pray to Zeus but I'm sure we agree there is no Zeus.

Could your God create a universe?

I assume it could if it had the interest, but since there is no reliable evidence that it had the interest I see no reason to assume it did as I think this would be contrary to the evidence that the universe formed under the properties of gravity and the fabric of spacetime.

 

[timothy1027]

Yes, good point - something very insidious about one who claims to be agnostic - they can't be accused of either credulity or defiance/blindness - both sides covered.

When I was around 21, I was taught by one of my bosses to, "Always cover your ***, continuously!"

 

[DNB]

I didn't draw the conclusion that God exists from evidence, I assumed it to be true.

Understood, thx.

Praying to God is a material act. It could be done even if there were no God in my view. For example people pray to Zeus but I'm sure we agree there is no Zeus.

Yes, but men somehow got it right - if you still predicate that God exists?
In other words, whether it be zeus, mars, allah or God, the material realm has discerned something that exists in the spiritual realm.
Which, as you have heard me say many times, establishes the fact that men are spiritual, and that this endowment necessitates a derivation from a spiritual source, namely God - God created man in His image.

I assume it could if it had the interest, but since there is no reliable evidence that it had the interest I see no reason to assume it did as I think this would be contrary to the evidence that the universe formed under the properties of gravity and the fabric of spacetime.

But, again, man has traversed the two realms by his acknowledgment that God exists. If God had absolutely no involvement in creation, what gave man the propensity to be religious - stardust & protoplasm?
There's a fundamental incongruity in your logic, I believe.

 

[DNB]

When I was around 21, I was taught by one of my bosses to, "Always cover your ***, continuously!"

Apparently too many agnostics were told the same thing.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So why doesn't he show himself once in a while? He had no problem doing it all the time in the OT. How did a Big Bruiser like God suddenly get so people-shy?

God doesn't hide Himself from us. Most often it's the other way round.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So why doesn't he show himself once in a while? He had no problem doing it all the time in the OT. How did a Big Bruiser like God suddenly get so people-shy?

Usually a High God retires or dies and is replaced by His kid.

 

[danieldemol]

Understood, thx.

Yes, but men somehow got it right - if you still predicate that God exists?
In other words, whether it be zeus, mars, allah or God, the material realm has discerned something that exists in the spiritual realm.
Which, as you have heard me say many times, establishes the fact that men are spiritual, and that this endowment necessitates a derivation from a spiritual source, namely God

-Not necessarily, from the fact that people believe in things that are in my view incorrect such as Thor the God of thunder it makes it pretty clear that humans are guessing, so in the absence of reliable evidence I cannot confirm which of those guesses if any whether mine or others are correct. Guessing does not require derivation from a spiritual source.

- God created man in His image.

That is simply pushing your theology, even if there is a God there is no guarantee that it has an image or that it made you in its image if it did.

But, again, man has traversed the two realms by his acknowledgment that God exists. If God had absolutely no involvement in creation, what gave man the propensity to be religious - stardust & protoplasm?
There's a fundamental incongruity in your logic, I believe.

Definition of traversed;
verb
past tense: traversed; past participle: traversed

1. 1.
   travel across or through.
   "he traversed the forest"
   
   
   
   
   
2. 2.
   move back and forth or sideways.
   "a probe is traversed along the tunnel"
   .
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   So you believe that man travelled through the material and spiritual realms to discover Thor God of thunder? I dont think man did, I think man simply speculates in the absence of reliable evidence. And that speculation is at best an emergent property of neurons firing through material brains in my view.

 

[timothy1027]

God doesn't hide Himself from us. Most often it's the other way round.

Over many thousands of years, humans have not yet proven or disproven the existence of God. This is STILL one of many unanswered questions for humans. HOW can God be all-powerful, kind, loving and worthy of worship when he has been giving humanity the silent treatment for the past several millennia? At the very least, this seems like VERY POOR manors!

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, good point - something very insidious about one who claims to be agnostic - they can't be accused of either credulity or defiance/blindness - both sides covered.

You've made negative statements about atheism. Now you're doing the same about agnosticism.

What should one conclude from this? That people must either share your worldview or have theirs denigrated? Does this kind of approach represent Jesus' teachings, in your view?

 

[danieldemol]

Does this kind of approach represent Jesus' teachings, in your view?

Sadly it probably does represent the approach of the dogmatic Jesus in my view

 

[Jimmy]

He’s the man. Existence itself. When he dies it all comes down

 

[RestlessSoul]

Over many thousands of years, humans have not yet proven or disproven the existence of God. This is STILL one of many unanswered questions for humans. HOW can God be all-powerful, kind, loving and worthy of worship when he has been giving humanity the silent treatment for the past several millennia? At the very least, this seems like VERY POOR manors!

God speaks in silence. It’s up to us to learn how to listen. Why else did Jesus and the Buddha go into the wilderness to find enlightenment?

Reason, when you speak
I cannot hear the wise one.
- Rumi

 

[rocala]

something very insidious about one who claims to be agnostic - they can't be accused of either credulity or defiance/blindness - both sides covered.

Absolute rubbish. Agnosticism can simply mean "I don't know." It is a remark that non-arrogant people make quite frequently.

 

[DNB]

-Not necessarily, from the fact that people believe in things that are in my view incorrect such as Thor the God of thunder it makes it pretty clear that humans are guessing, so in the absence of reliable evidence I cannot confirm which of those guesses if any whether mine or others are correct. Guessing does not require derivation from a spiritual source.

That is simply pushing your theology, even if there is a God there is no guarantee that it has an image or that it made you in its image if it did.

Definition of traversed;
verb
past tense: traversed; past participle: traversed

1. 1.
   travel across or through.
   "he traversed the forest"
   
   
   
   
   
2. 2.
   move back and forth or sideways.
   "a probe is traversed along the tunnel"
   .
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   So you believe that man travelled through the material and spiritual realms to discover Thor God of thunder? I dont think man did, I think man simply speculates in the absence of reliable evidence. And that speculation is at best an emergent property of neurons firing through material brains in my view.

But no other on creature on the planet has done - there are no Christian cats, or Buddhist dogs, or camels walking around with bourkas on their head.
Why did man spend so much time and money on religion, when even you say that God exists, if it was just an absolute crap-shoot? You're wrong, and you're overlooking the blatant and undeniable evidence.