Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Every now and again the forum experiences it.
Now there is a recent surge of threads about the so called scientific proofs of the Qur'an, or the claims of the book's infallibility.
Proeslytization, circular reasoning, the usual.
I'm wondering at what point have so many Muslims became so weak in their faith, that they have sunk to this theological bankruptcy and undying fountain of superstitions?
I was always interested in Islam, of course not in the way of believing in its revelations, but as a vast religious phenomena, centered in a fascinating geopolitical reality. I looked into Islamic explorers of the middle ages, the poets, the architectural and engineering feats that took place in the Islamic world.
yet there seems to be a mysterious gap, between these sophisticated individuals who have changed the world over, and people who take this legacy and present Islam as a redundant faith, where people obsessively proselytize, make the most mind numbing claims about their sacred text, and just present themselves as people who dropped out of school at the age of 13 in order to work on a farm.
All those shallow claims about scientific proofs in the Qur'an, about lofty truths of the book, about Islam being the religion that humanity should follow makes Islam look like a terrifying phenomena of ignorance and superstition.
for how long are we going to have to scroll through threads about the absolute truths of Islam, about anachronistic religious morals that most of us are shocked people hold in this age.
Many Muslims tell us, READ THE QUR'AN. well I have read the Qur'an, I have read it in two languages, and yet I don't believe that Muhammad flew on a winged steed from Mecca to Jerusalem, it did not make me want to convert into Islam. I have read it because I think its impossible for people not to read the texts of the major religions. I didn't find any scientific miracles in the Qur'an, I didn't find any absolute truths.
There are many people who are willing to go to great lengths in exploring other cultures and faiths, Islam included, and also to interact with the other people, however it is impossible to relate to these people when they are not willing to dialogue, and only preach how glorious their Deen is, how moral it is, how perfect it is for everyone.
It is not. many of us have rejected the religions of our own societies, not because we are looking for a new religion, but because we are disillusioned by religion in general.
however it is still possible for us to appreciate and study religions, just without the need to worship any deity or to participate in ritualistic routine in our lives.
Now I know, there are Muslim members here who are willing to go to great lengths in order to enhance our own interest in Islam, why not just give them a break, why not stop with the circular reasoning, Im sure that by now you realize that the non Muslim members simply do not see Islamic revelations as something to believe in, why not tone down with the proselytization and instead turn to informing, why not tone down the dichotomy between a perfect moral Islam, and a decadent secular west.
maybe we are not interested in converting to Islam, but we are willing to study about it. isn't that good enough?
my main point is that many members are willing to explore Islam (and yes it does include criticism), but all the self righteous, anti scientific, absolutist threads are like a bucket of cold water.
Now there is a recent surge of threads about the so called scientific proofs of the Qur'an, or the claims of the book's infallibility.
Proeslytization, circular reasoning, the usual.
I'm wondering at what point have so many Muslims became so weak in their faith, that they have sunk to this theological bankruptcy and undying fountain of superstitions?
I was always interested in Islam, of course not in the way of believing in its revelations, but as a vast religious phenomena, centered in a fascinating geopolitical reality. I looked into Islamic explorers of the middle ages, the poets, the architectural and engineering feats that took place in the Islamic world.
yet there seems to be a mysterious gap, between these sophisticated individuals who have changed the world over, and people who take this legacy and present Islam as a redundant faith, where people obsessively proselytize, make the most mind numbing claims about their sacred text, and just present themselves as people who dropped out of school at the age of 13 in order to work on a farm.
All those shallow claims about scientific proofs in the Qur'an, about lofty truths of the book, about Islam being the religion that humanity should follow makes Islam look like a terrifying phenomena of ignorance and superstition.
for how long are we going to have to scroll through threads about the absolute truths of Islam, about anachronistic religious morals that most of us are shocked people hold in this age.
Many Muslims tell us, READ THE QUR'AN. well I have read the Qur'an, I have read it in two languages, and yet I don't believe that Muhammad flew on a winged steed from Mecca to Jerusalem, it did not make me want to convert into Islam. I have read it because I think its impossible for people not to read the texts of the major religions. I didn't find any scientific miracles in the Qur'an, I didn't find any absolute truths.
There are many people who are willing to go to great lengths in exploring other cultures and faiths, Islam included, and also to interact with the other people, however it is impossible to relate to these people when they are not willing to dialogue, and only preach how glorious their Deen is, how moral it is, how perfect it is for everyone.
It is not. many of us have rejected the religions of our own societies, not because we are looking for a new religion, but because we are disillusioned by religion in general.
however it is still possible for us to appreciate and study religions, just without the need to worship any deity or to participate in ritualistic routine in our lives.
Now I know, there are Muslim members here who are willing to go to great lengths in order to enhance our own interest in Islam, why not just give them a break, why not stop with the circular reasoning, Im sure that by now you realize that the non Muslim members simply do not see Islamic revelations as something to believe in, why not tone down with the proselytization and instead turn to informing, why not tone down the dichotomy between a perfect moral Islam, and a decadent secular west.
maybe we are not interested in converting to Islam, but we are willing to study about it. isn't that good enough?
my main point is that many members are willing to explore Islam (and yes it does include criticism), but all the self righteous, anti scientific, absolutist threads are like a bucket of cold water.
