Redeeming the Akedah.

[John D. Brey]

From where do you come? From a putrid drop טפה סרוחה.​

​

Pirkei Avot 3:1.​

The Ethics of the Fathers (Pirkei Avot) warns everyone (3:1) to be conscious from whence one comes, or has come, or come from. Consciousness of this coming, which is to speak of where we're all from, is the key to the symbolism of the Akedah (the binding of Isaac) missing from nearly every commentary on the Akedah (to include two previous studies done right here in the forum: The Akedah). We can speak of redeeming the Akedah since every Jewish sage worth his salt knows that within a general "Jewish" understanding of the narrative of the Akedah, there's a glaring problem with God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham willingly obeying, and strangest of all, the idea that Abraham and God both consider the sacrifice of Isaac a great and wonderful, a glorious, gift from God?

When G-d asked Abraham to offer [Isaac] . . . Abraham rejoiced. Isaac also rejoiced seeing he had been found worthy to become a total offering to G-d . . ..​

​

Shenei Luchot HaBerit, Torah Sheikhtav, Vayera, Torah Ohr, 62.​

John

 

[John D. Brey]

From where do you come? From a putrid drop טפה סרוחה.​

​

Pirkei Avot 3:1.​

The Ethics of the Fathers (Pirkei Avot) warns everyone (3:1) to be conscious from whence one comes, or has come, or come from. Consciousness of this coming, which is to speak of where we're all from, is the key to the symbolism of the Akedah (the binding of Isaac) missing from nearly every commentary on the Akedah (to include two previous studies done right here in the forum: The Akedah). We can speak of redeeming the Akedah since every Jewish sage worth his salt knows that within a general "Jewish" understanding of the narrative of the Akedah, there's a glaring problem with God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham willingly obeying, and strangest of all, the idea that Abraham and God both consider the sacrifice of Isaac a great and wonderful, a glorious, gift from God?

When G-d asked Abraham to offer [Isaac] . . . Abraham rejoiced. Isaac also rejoiced seeing he had been found worthy to become a total offering to G-d . . ..​

​

Shenei Luchot HaBerit, Torah Sheikhtav, Vayera, Torah Ohr, 62.​

From a general, and more so a Jewish context, it seem utterly absurd to read the Shelah HaKaddosh claim that when God tells Abraham to kill his son (offer his son) Abraham jumps for joy: "Hip Hip Hooray . . . I get to kill Isaac"! That makes no sense in context? Why is the offering of Isaac supposed to be a great honor, a gift, something Abraham looks forward to?

Jewish exegesis explains that the honor is in the idea that God so trust Abraham to obey, i.e., Abraham so trusts God, that even a commandment that can't be honored (according to Jewish law and prejudice) won't deter Abraham from obedience. Which is to say that in the hands of Jewish exegetes, the glory in offering Isaac isn't in the offering itself (since in Jewish thought that would be a horrendous crime), but in knowing that in the end Isaac won't, can't, be offered (for the reason stated), such that Abraham is supposed to know that it's just a test of his faith and obedience toward God.

This presentation of the meaning of the narrative is as naive as it is unconscionably absurd; it's as wrongheaded as can be. Only the most important doctrinal stumbling block could force brilliant Jewish sages, men who know the intricacies of scriptural symbolism and idiomatic matrices almost automatically, to feign stupidity in the face of perhaps the most important narrative in the entire Tanakh. They feign stupidity not because they're stupid. They're as far from that as can be. They feign stupidity since they don't have a schematic to make the narrative work in a way that doesn't transgress their understanding of God's Law. They feign stupidity because of the added nuisance and fear that a schematic that makes the Akdedah work without transgressing Jewish understanding of the Law could open a can of worms more damaging to a Jewish understandging of the Law than it is useful to understanding the Akedah.



John

 

[dybmh]

From a ... Jewish context

Are you claiming that what follows these words will be from a Jewish context? Before I read further, I need to know.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

--> ignore-list

 

[John D. Brey]

Are you claiming that what follows these words will be from a Jewish context? Before I read further, I need to know.

I think you're reading more into the general statement than context dictates? The words, "from a Jewish context," in context, refer only to the idea that I've encountered through decades of study of Jewish thought, that God doesn't really intend Abraham to sacrifice Isaac since that would be a sin and transgress the Law.

You're a knowledgeable Jew. Do you think it's ok, glorious, for Abraham to kill Isaac, for God to tell Abraham to kill Isaac? Or do you think there's something else going on in the narrative?

This is a story of madness, of mad economics, aneconomics, a radical and literal case of death-dealing in an economy of sacrifice. Abraham was willing to make a gift of the life of Isaac. Were a man later this week to take his son and head up to the top of the World Trade Center -- with the intention of offering the boy in sacrifice, we would send a SWAT team in to seize the madman and arrest him for attempted murder, for defying the most elemental command of ethics and the law, which is not to deal in death, above all -- God forbid -- with one's own son.​

​

John D. Caputo, The Prayers and Tears of Jacques Derrida, p.197.​

John

 

[John D. Brey]

Are you claiming that what follows these words will be from a Jewish context? Before I read further, I need to know.

. . . I should add, if God told you to offer your own son would you jump for joy and consider it a great privilege to sacrifice your son on an altar? If you say yes, then could you explain why you would be happy about that? In more than one place, Rabbi Isaiah Horowitz claims Abraham was so desirous of offering Isaac that he, Abraham, literally feared Isaac might mess it all up if he made himself unworthy prior to Abraham's opportunity to do him in. Horowitz claims Abraham was anxious to get the killin done (perhaps even on highway 61) before Isaac bollixed up the opportunity in some way.



John

 

[dybmh]

refer only to the idea that I've encountered through decades of study of Jewish thought

Are you saying that you have accurately rendered this idea?

 

[John D. Brey]

Are you claiming that what follows these words will be from a Jewish context? Before I read further, I need to know.

. . . I should add, Judaism labels the narrative, "the binding of Isaac," not, "the sacrifice of Isaac."




John

 

[dybmh]

if God told you to ... ?

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Didn't you tell me just a moment ago, you've studied Jewish thought for decades, and you don't know? You don't know the answer to your question?

Any question on the form of "if God told you to ... What would you do?" has the same answer according to Jewish thought. One word, starts with. "D".

What is that word? You should know this.

 

[dybmh]

. . . I should add, Judaism labels the narrative, "the binding of Isaac," not, "the sacrifice of Isaac

You're getting ahead of yourself.

 

[John D. Brey]

Are you saying that you have accurately rendered this idea?

I think you misunderstand the very spirit of what I write. I use the term "a Jewish context" not in some metaphysical sense in which I believe I'm the arbiter of what a "Jewish context" entails, and represents, but only in the sense that that term, a "Jewish context" speaks of that context in my own contextual understanding.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Didn't you tell me just a moment ago, you've studied Jewish thought for decades, and you don't know? You don't know the answer to your question?

Any question on the form of "if God told you to ... What would you do?" has the same answer according to Jewish thought. One word, starts with. "D".

What is that word? You should know this.

You should know by now how terrible I am with word puzzles.

I assume a god-fearing Jew would say that they would be happy to obey God no matter what the commandment was. I.e., obedience to God is a source of joy and happiness even if the commandment is something that would generally not be the source of happiness or joy.

But in the Shney Luchot Haberit, the Shelah HaKaddosh appears to claim that Abraham's desire to offer Isaac comes from some kind of schematic he understands (Abraham understands) such that he realizes sacrificing Isaac, within this doctrinal schematic, or context, makes the sacrifice stupendously important in a manner that's not just related to obedience for obedience sake, faith in God for the sake of faith in God, but something different: Abraham knows what it means ---doctrinally/theologically ----as a schematic for understanding biblical doctrine throughout the word of God ---to sacrifice Isaac.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

You're getting ahead of yourself.

How can Abraham "sacrifice" Isaac, rather than merely "binding" Isaac, since that would be murder? Is murder ok if God tells you to do it? Is it ok for God to tell you to murder? If not, is it ok if he stops your hand at the last second?



John

 

[dybmh]

I think you misunderstand the very spirit of what I write

Or, you misunderstand, consistently, regularly, and without fail, the Jewish thinkers whom you claim to study.

You should know by now how terrible I am with word puzzles.

John. You're great with riddles and specifically word-play! Come on. Are you denying it?

From where do you come? From a putrid drop טפה סרוחה.Pirkei Avot 3:1.

The Ethics of the Fathers (Pirkei Avot) warns everyone (3:1) to be conscious from whence one comes, or has come, or come from.

I can help! Embrace your inner child... from a Jewish Context. Let's have some fun?

Ok.

Here's the question:

What's one word which from the Jewish context of Jewish thought, answers each and every question in the form of: "God says to ... What would you do?"

Hint #1: it starts with "D"

Spoiler: Hint #2:

Noooo.... it's not "Dude???!!!!"

if God told you to offer your own son would you jump for joy and consider it a great privilege to sacrifice your son on an altar?

Dude????!!!!

I mean, that works, but, it's not Jewish Thought. "Dude??!!!" I'm quite sure comes not from Jewish Thought, but instead comes from the Netflix parody: Bill and Ted's Excellent Bar-Mitzvah.

Spoiler: Hint #3

Because, you're my brother from another mother, I'll let you "buy a vowel" on loan... or something.

It has 2 and only two vowels. Both are "E".

Spoiler: Hint #4:

Let's see... it has: 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... 6 ... 7! 7 letters.

Spoiler: Putting all that together...

1. Starts with "D"
2. Not "Dude"
3. Has two and only two vowels, both "E"
4. 7 letters long

DE_E___

Got it? One word... I gave you some good hints, didn't I?

 

[dybmh]

How can Abraham "sacrifice" Isaac?

One word answer: It begins with a D...

 

[dybmh]

Is murder ok if God tells you to do it?

One word answer: It begins with a D...

 

[dybmh]

Is it ok for God to tell you to murder?

One word answer.... begins. with. a.

"D"

 

[dybmh]

is it ok if he stops your hand at the last second?

One word answer.

Begins with a "D"

 

[John D. Brey]

Or, you misunderstand, consistently, regularly, and without fail, the Jewish thinkers whom you claim to study.



John. You're great with riddles and specifically word-play! Come on. Are you denying it?



I can help! Embrace your inner child... from a Jewish Context. Let's have some fun?

Ok.

Here's the question:

What's one word which from the Jewish context of Jewish thought, answers each and every question in the form of: "God says to ... What would you do?"

Hint #1: it starts with "D"

Spoiler: Hint #2:

Noooo.... it's not "Dude???!!!!"



Dude????!!!!

I mean, that works, but, it's not Jewish Thought. "Dude??!!!" I'm quite sure comes not from Jewish Thought, but instead comes from the Netflix parody: Bill and Ted's Excellent Bar-Mitzvah.

Spoiler: Hint #3

Because, you're my brother from another mother, I'll let you "buy a vowel" on loan... or something.

View attachment 93244

It has 2 and only two vowels. Both are "E".

Spoiler: Hint #4:

Let's see... it has: 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... 6 ... 7! 7 letters.

View attachment 93245

Spoiler: Putting all that together...

1. Starts with "D"
2. Not "Dude"
3. Has two and only two vowels, both "E"
4. 7 letters long

DE_E___

Got it? One word... I gave you some good hints, didn't I?

Devekut? If so, I'd have never got that without the hints.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

One word answer: It begins with a D...

Do you suggest that Abraham's devotion to God is the sole, or most important reason he is willing to offer Isaac? Secondarily, does he go through with it? Can he go through with it? Can God command it with the intention that Abraham goes through with it? Can God bless Abraham for murdering his son so long as the murder is labeled a "sacrifice"?



John