Referring to a Messenger as a "Manifestation of God" is not shirk (Joining partners with God)

[danieldemol]

Referring to a Messenger as a "Manifestation of God" is not shirk (Joining partners with God)
In the Baha'i sacred writings the term "Manifestation of God" is explained as follows;

The Manifestation of God is compared to a pure mirror. In the same way a mirror reflects the attributes of the sun such as heat and light, but the sun does not dwell to descend in the mirror, the attributes of God such as love, mercy, justice etc are reflected in the pure personage of the Manifestation of God, but God does not descend to dwell in the mirror of His holy Personage.

If we were to hear the radio say, "I'm Joe blogs on the morning show" we know the radio is not claiming to literally be Joe blogs, rather the radio does not assert it's independant existence, but rather relays the message as it is transmitted without mentioning itself.

Thus Baha'u'llah explains in the Kitabiqan,
..."Thus in moments in which these Essences of being1 were deeply immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of divine mysteries, they claimed their utterance to be the Voice of divinity, the Call of God Himself. Were the eye of discernment to be opened, it would recognize that in this very state, they have considered themselves utterly effaced and non-existent in the face of Him Who is the All-Pervading, the Incorruptible. Methinks, they have regarded themselves as utter nothingness, and deemed their mention in that Court an act of blasphemy. For the slightest whispering of self, within such a Court, is an evidence of self-assertion and independent existence"...

...'Thus, He hath revealed: “Those shafts were God’s, not Thine!”2 And also He saith: “In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God.'...3


1 The Messengers of God
2 Quran 8:17
3 Quran 48:10

 

[Dawnofhope]

Sounds like a cool religion to me. Where's the enrollment card?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Referring to a Messenger as a "Manifestation of God" is not shirk (Joining partners with God)
In the Baha'i sacred writings the term "Manifestation of God" is explained as follows;

The Manifestation of God is compared to a pure mirror. In the same way a mirror reflects the attributes of the sun such as heat and light, but the sun does not dwell to descend in the mirror, the attributes of God such as love, mercy, justice etc are reflected in the pure personage of the Manifestation of God, but God does not descend to dwell in the mirror of His holy Personage.

If we were to hear the radio say, "I'm Joe blogs on the morning show" we know the radio is not claiming to literally be Joe blogs, rather the radio does not assert it's independant existence, but rather relays the message as it is transmitted without mentioning itself.

Thus Baha'u'llah explains in the Kitabiqan,
..."Thus in moments in which these Essences of being1 were deeply immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of divine mysteries, they claimed their utterance to be the Voice of divinity, the Call of God Himself. Were the eye of discernment to be opened, it would recognize that in this very state, they have considered themselves utterly effaced and non-existent in the face of Him Who is the All-Pervading, the Incorruptible. Methinks, they have regarded themselves as utter nothingness, and deemed their mention in that Court an act of blasphemy. For the slightest whispering of self, within such a Court, is an evidence of self-assertion and independent existence"...

...'Thus, He hath revealed: “Those shafts were God’s, not Thine!”2 And also He saith: “In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God.'...3


1 The Messengers of God
2 Quran 8:17
3 Quran 48:10

Daniel that's an excellent post. Love the radio analogy.

Never mind that Adrian fellow (he's an All Black fan).

 

[interminable]

Sounds like a cool religion to me. Where's the enrollment card?

Where is its miracle instead?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Where is its miracle instead?

Baha'u'llah was asked by the Ulama to provide a miracle as proof of his Divinity. His reply was that it is for God to test His servants and not for His servants to test God. However he agreed to perform any miracle they requested under one condition. That she should one and all sign a document that they would unhesitatingly accept His cause once the miracle was completed. They were perplexed and argud amongst themselves. Perhaps He was a sorcerer, or He may trick them. They capitulated and failed to respond.

What did Muhammad say of miracles?

 

[interminable]

Baha'u'llah was asked by the Ulama to provide a miracle as proof of his Divinity. His reply was that it is for God to test His servants and not for His servants to test God. However he agreed to perform any miracle they requested under one condition. That she should one and all sign a document that they would unhesitatingly accept His cause once the miracle was completed. They were perplexed and argud amongst themselves. Perhaps He was a sorcerer, or He may trick them. They capitulated and failed to respond.

What did Muhammad say of miracles?

And more importantly what was the miracle of باب bab???

I've read that بهاء said it's impossible to bring more and more miracles but I hadn't heard that he performed even one single one.

Besides the holy Quran is the prophet muhammad's eternal miracle
Can u bring 3 verses like it???

 

[Kirran]

===Non-Moderator Notice===

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[Dawnofhope]

And more importantly what was the miracle of باب bab???

I've read that بهاء said it's impossible to bring more and more miracles but I hadn't heard that he performed even one single one.

Besides the holy Quran is the prophet muhammad's eternal miracle
Can u bring 3 verses like it???

Baha'is of course believe in Muhammad as a messenger of God and seal of the prophets. We believe in the Holy Quran.

I'm from a Christian background but became a Baha'i over 25 years ago. The Baha'i Faith is everywhere now and the writings profound and beautiful.

3 verses? How is this for a start:

1 No man shall attain the shores of the ocean of true understanding except he be detached from all that is in heaven and on earth. Sanctify your souls, O ye peoples of the world, that haply ye may attain that station which God hath destined for you and enter thus the tabernacle which, according to the dispensations of Providence, hath been raised in the firmament of the Bayán.

2
The essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.
3
Consider the past. How many, both high and low, have, at all times, yearningly awaited the advent of the Manifestations of God in the sanctified persons of His chosen Ones. How often have they expected His coming, how frequently have they prayed that the breeze of divine mercy might blow, and the promised Beauty step forth from behind the veil of concealment, and be made manifest to all the world. And whensoever the portals of grace did open, and the clouds of divine bounty did rain upon mankind, and the light of the Unseen did shine above the horizon of celestial might, they all denied Him, and turned away from His face—the face of God Himself. Refer ye, to verify this truth, to that which hath been recorded in every sacred Book.

Where are your 3 verses from the Holy Quran?

 

[Kirran]

===Another Non-Moderator Notice===

In an effort to aid non-Baha'i from straying from the DIR rules, it is advisable not to directly challenge them in threads where they aren't permitted to respond!

 

[Dawnofhope]

===Another Non-Moderator Notice===

In an effort to aid non-Baha'i from straying from the DIR rules, it is advisable not to directly challenge them in threads where they aren't permitted to respond!

Thank you. I hadn't released we were in the Baha'i DIR section, Best Wishes.

 

[arthra]

Yes we always try to respect the RF rules and respect the other DIRs as well!

Back to the topic:

I have a favorite essay written by Julio Savi on the concept of the Manifestation of God where he cites the following:

Divine: that is the Word of God, the Logos. This reality has neither a beginning nor an end; it is eternal, yet it is inferior to God, because it was created by Him. `... this third state is alone partaken of by the divine messengers, although great saints have attained extraordinary pre-eminence and reflect the splendour of the sun,'[15] says `Abdu'l-Bahá.

These three aspects of the reality of the Manifestation of God are described by `Abdu'l-Bahá through the following metaphor: their material nature is as a niche, their human nature is as the lamp within the niche, their divine nature as the light which emanates from the lamp.[16]

Anyone interested can read more at:

The Eternal Quest for God: Chapter 6