Reincarnation, John the Baptist, and the Word Regeneration

[Fool]

Most of christianity rejects the idea of transmigration and/or reincarnation.


Any ideas of maybe why? hyppolitus and/or iraneus' condemnation and suppression?


The work regeneration, which is the english translation of the greek word palingenesis means the same thing.


Is the idea of reincarnation, or metempsychosis, the idea of a consciousness, mind, spirit, coming and going from the earth planes to experience the earth plane and evolve/mature in the alchemical process? to test the mettle as it were and steel itself?


so wouldn't the coming of elijah be the same spirit as that of john the baptist and suggesting reincarnation?

 

[1213]

so wouldn't the coming of elijah be the same spirit as that of john the baptist and suggesting reincarnation?

I don't think so, because I think spirit means in this similar thing as attitude. If someone comes in same spirit as Elijah, he has the same attitude, or desire to do the similar thing as Elijah did.

 

[Fool]

I don't think so, because I think spirit means in this similar thing as attitude. If someone comes in same spirit as Elijah, he has the same attitude, or desire to do the similar thing as Elijah did.

jesus doesn't imply that someone had the attitude like elijah, he proclaimed that elijah had come and they didn't recognize him.

matthew 17:12

 

[Spice]

I think the main reason it cannot be accepted is because most people can't comprehend their soul as an unknown subconscious. The subconscious doesn't connect to the known world the way the consciousness does, but it is shaped and built by consciousness in the known.

It's like all the background programs that you don't even knows exists, but is necessary for program to run properly. Each life is building new code, and even though the program is easier to use, that code is not recognized by the operator. The operator isn't even aware there is an update, because the previous has been erased. (And I'm not a computer-type so this may sound lame. My apologies.)

 

[1213]

jesus doesn't imply that someone had the attitude like elijah, he proclaimed that elijah had come and they didn't recognize him.

matthew 17:12

Bible says:
And he will go out before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah "to turn the hearts of fathers to their children," and disobedient ones to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people having been prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:17

But, it is interesting that Bible says also:

And Elijah with Moses was seen by them, and they were speaking with Jesus.
Mark. 9:4

So, according to the Bible, Elijah came and talked with Jesus.

 

[Fool]

Bible says:
And he will go out before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah "to turn the hearts of fathers to their children," and disobedient ones to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people having been prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:17

But, it is interesting that Bible says also:

And Elijah with Moses was seen by them, and they were speaking with Jesus.
Mark. 9:4

So, according to the Bible, Elijah came and talked with Jesus.

the spirit exists before and after. the personality is no more. the personality is temporal, the spirit is eternal. when john the baptist answered that he wasn't elijah, he told the truth. elijah didn't exist anymore.

so then reincarnation is a spirit returning to the earthly plane and not a personality because obviously john wasn't elijah at the time jesus was ministering.

reincarnation isn't a problem in judaism as much as it is in christianity.

 

[1213]

the spirit exists before and after the personality is no more. the personality is temporal, the spirit is eternal. when john the baptist answered that he wasn't elijah, he told the truth. elijah didn't exist anymore.

Sorry, I don't think John said Elijah didn't exist anymore. By what is said in the Bible, Elijah exists, because he came to talk with Jesus. And I think human spirit is not necessary eternal, at least Bible doesn't say so.

 

[Fool]

Sorry, I don't think John said Elijah didn't exist anymore. By what is said in the Bible, Elijah exists, because he came to talk with Jesus. And I think human spirit is not necessary eternal, at least Bible doesn't say so.

Jesus claimed John the Baptist was Elijah.

Matthew 11:14
Matthew 17:12
Mark 9:13


John the Baptist claimed he wasn't Elijah.

John 1:21

Either one of them was lying, or obviously John and Elijah can't be the same person but they can be the same spirit.

 

[1213]

Jesus claimed John the Baptist was Elijah.

Matthew 11:14
Matthew 17:12
Mark 9:13

John the Baptist claimed he wasn't Elijah.

John 1:21

Either one of them was lying, or obviously John and Elijah can't be the same person but they can be the same spirit.

Elijah can be understood either the exact person, or what Elijah represents. It seems to me that Jesus thought John was what Elijah means. This is why I don't think they lied.

And if you are willing to receive, he is Elijah, the one about to come.
Matthew 11:14
But I say to you, Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they desired. So also the Son of man is about to suffer by them.
Matthew 17:12
But I say to you, Elijah also has come and they did to him whatever they desired, even as it has been written of him.
Mark 9:13

And they asked him, What, then? Are you Elijah? And he said, I am not. Are you the Prophet? And he answered, No.
John 1:21

 

[Muffled]

Most of christianity rejects the idea of transmigration and/or reincarnation.


Any ideas of maybe why? hyppolitus and/or iraneus' condemnation and suppression?


The work regeneration, which is the english translation of the greek word palingenesis means the same thing.


Is the idea of reincarnation, or metempsychosis, the idea of a consciousness, mind, spirit, coming and going from the earth planes to experience the earth plane and evolve/mature in the alchemical process? to test the mettle as it were and steel itself?


so wouldn't the coming of elijah be the same spirit as that of john the baptist and suggesting reincarnation?

I believe the reaction is that reincarnation belongs to Hinduism and is therefore false. Definitely what Jesus said is different and is just off hand like saying the snow flies. It isn't part of a message and He doesn't explain anything. Jesus also does not dismiss the concept that a person can undergo punishment in their next life when the man born blind is healed.

 

[Muffled]

I don't think so, because I think spirit means in this similar thing as attitude. If someone comes in same spirit as Elijah, he has the same attitude, or desire to do the similar thing as Elijah did.

I believe the English is ambiguous so one would have to examine the Greek to find the true meaning.
Malachi 4:5 I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD
In that verse it does not say that an attitude will be sent.

 

[Muffled]

I think the main reason it cannot be accepted is because most people can't comprehend their soul as an unknown subconscious. The subconscious doesn't connect to the known world the way the consciousness does, but it is shaped and built by consciousness in the known.

It's like all the background programs that you don't even knows exists, but is necessary for program to run properly. Each life is building new code, and even though the program is easier to use, that code is not recognized by the operator. The operator isn't even aware there is an update, because the previous has been erased. (And I'm not a computer-type so this may sound lame. My apologies.)

I believe it is more likely that most of the memories of past lives have been archived. Available but not to the conscious mind.

 

[1213]

I believe the English is ambiguous so one would have to examine the Greek to find the true meaning.
Malachi 4:5 I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD

I think that can also be about later time, because it speaks of "the great and dreadful day of the LORD", which I understand means the "judgment day".

 

[Fool]

Elijah can be understood either the exact person, or what Elijah represents. It seems to me that Jesus thought John was what Elijah means. This is why I don't think they lied.

And if you are willing to receive, he is Elijah, the one about to come.
Matthew 11:14
But I say to you, Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they desired. So also the Son of man is about to suffer by them.
Matthew 17:12
But I say to you, Elijah also has come and they did to him whatever they desired, even as it has been written of him.
Mark 9:13

And they asked him, What, then? Are you Elijah? And he said, I am not. Are you the Prophet? And he answered, No.
John 1:21

or palingenesis is actually what jesus was referring to. the spirit of elijah's experience in the earth was not the same as the spirit of john's experience in the earth because they didn't share the same space/time. but the spirit retains all of that information because in hebrew and the greek it's a reference to mind.

you're being confused by the fact that the body returns to the earth and the spirit to god who gave. ecclesiastes 12:7

i will be what i will be.

 

[Fool]

I believe the reaction is that reincarnation belongs to Hinduism and is therefore false. Definitely what Jesus said is different and is just off hand like saying the snow flies. It isn't part of a message and He doesn't explain anything. Jesus also does not dismiss the concept that a person can undergo punishment in their next life when the man born blind is healed.

reincarnation is a concept well known in 1st century palestine not only because of the hellenistic influence but because of the spice/silk road. the naassene believed in it. and there were already buddhist missionaries in palestine in the 1st century

 

[Muffled]

I think that can also be about later time, because it speaks of "the great and dreadful day of the LORD", which I understand means the "judgment day".

I believe it could be a double fulfillment. Jesus when asked about it said this: "
(Matt 17:12 [ESV2011])
But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.”

 

[Muffled]

reincarnation is a concept well known in 1st century palestine not only because of the hellenistic influence but because of the spice/silk road. the naassene believed in it. and there were already buddhist missionaries in palestine in the 1st century

I don't believe I have ever had a Buddhist explain what he means by rebirth. The Hindu nonsense is largely materialistic speculation and is highly irrational.

 

[Spice]

The soul, a person's subconsciousness, develops over many lives of consciousness, or living personalities until they reach "nirvana" the Buddhist term, or "sanctification" the Abrahamic term -- a state of perfection. Some philosophies believe this state can never be reached, but it is mankind's fate to continue the course. Other's believe in an end result of one kind or another.

Think of your subconscious as a collection of cause & effect experiences that projects itself into your living behavior, thus the saying "what does your conscious tell you to do?" It's the subconscious leading the conscious mind into action according to the level it has thus far obtained. It is the subconscious (soul) that never dies, but is paired with another conscious (ego/personhood) into another life vessel (body) to build upon its perfection.

SUBCONSCIOUS MIND
It records everything.
Always alert and awake.
It controls 95% of our lives.
It is built on habituation.
It speaks to you in dreams.
It has no verbal language.
It takes everything literally.
It can do a trillion things at once.
Is not logical; it's the feeling mind.
It is the true being that is you.

Now for a bit of funny......

 

[Fool]

I don't believe I have ever had a Buddhist explain what he means by rebirth. The Hindu nonsense is largely materialistic speculation and is highly irrational.

palingenesis isn't limited to hinduism, buddhism, jainism, sikkism, or............

Reincarnation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Children Who Report Memories of Past Lives - Division of Perceptual Studies

Tucker writes about James Leininger, a boy who had past-life memories of being a WWII pilot, and Ryan Hammond, who had memories of being a Hollywood agent.

med.virginia.edu