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Rejection of Pauline Epistles

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Are there any Christians who have rejected the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament? I have known a few in real life and they come to the conclusion that the Pauline chapters of the new Testament are not divinely inspired.
Considering the nature of how Paul came to know Isa it has been debate by a few minor Christian movement that Paul has no relevance to to the Bible. This mainly stems from how Paul separates Jesus from god as a second entity himself. For examples verses 1 Corinthians 8:6 and 1 Corinthians 1:30 establish this notion.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
What do you mean, "separates Jesus from God as a second entity Himself"? I'm not quite sure I understand.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
What do you mean, "separates Jesus from God as a second entity Himself"? I'm not quite sure I understand.

If you notice the verses I gave you will see ow Paul gives a subtle hint that Jesus is separate from Yahweh. Since the Trinitarian doctrine is that go dis one in 3 beings while Oneness dictate that Yahweh is one absolutely.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
If you notice the verses I gave you will see ow Paul gives a subtle hint that Jesus is separate from Yahweh. Since the Trinitarian doctrine is that god is one in 3 beings while Oneness dictate that Yahweh is one absolutely.
1 Corinthians 8:6 is no problem for Christians; we agree that there is only one God. Calling Jesus Christ "Lord" but not "God" isn't an issue either.

1 Corinthians 1:30 is likewise no problem. Calling Jesus the wisdom from God isn't anything that defeats the Trinitarian position.

If these texts definitively disproved the Trinity--indeed, if ANY Biblical text disproved the Trinity--then the belief in the Trinity wouldn't have lasted past Nicaea in 325.
 
Are there any Christians who have rejected the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament? I have known a few in real life and they come to the conclusion that the Pauline chapters of the new Testament are not divinely inspired.
Considering the nature of how Paul came to know Isa it has been debate by a few minor Christian movement that Paul has no relevance to to the Bible. This mainly stems from how Paul separates Jesus from god as a second entity himself. For examples verses 1 Corinthians 8:6 and 1 Corinthians 1:30 establish this notion.

"Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

As someone with an Arian-Unitarian perspective, 'lord' is a title, not necessarily proof that Jesus is God. Thus while Christ can be considered divine, as the 'Firstborn of Creation,' he is still not God the Father Himself.

"He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption." (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Here Jesus is personified as the Wisdom of God. If you know anything about Greek philosophy, the Logos (the Divine Sound of God, His Power and Presence, Shekhinah) had strong philosophical meaning as the pervasive power of God in the universe. In the Christian Scriptures, the Logos is equivalent to God Himself (John 1:1). The Logos, for the Christian, became personified in Jesus, full of grace and truth.

Thus, Christ is the personification of God's Wisdom in the flesh, who dwelt among us. I certainly do not have problems with that. I do have some problems with certain sentences in the Pauline Epistles (like the misogyny), and although attributed to Paul may not be by his written pen, but overall I think Paul's letters can possess great beauty when seen at the right angle.

As for those who reject the letters? There are people like that. Many are called either 'Red-letter Christians' (in some Bibles, Jesus' sayings are printed in red ink for contrast) because they mainly focus on Christ, or 'Jesuists' from the movement of Jesusism, or Jesuism. As for me, I am exploring ALL of the Christian Scriptures, especially the ones outside the Bible. Exciting! :D
 
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Shermana

Heretic
If you notice the verses I gave you will see ow Paul gives a subtle hint that Jesus is separate from Yahweh. Since the Trinitarian doctrine is that go dis one in 3 beings while Oneness dictate that Yahweh is one absolutely.

I have never heard of any anti-Pauline who has an issue with Paul's Christology being anti-Trinitarian, if anything we find great use in some of the Pauline writings to support our claims that Paul was not a Trinitarian, even if we disagree with his other doctrines. Jesus as the "Wisdom of God" of which "all things were made through" and being the "Firstborn of Creation" easily defeats a major Trinitarian position, their best defense is to say that "Firstborn" is figurative, even though the word is not used figuratively in the Greek, and the concept of being the first born created being is used quite literally in Proverbs 8, Sirach, and Wisdom of Solomon where the concept is described.

I also think you misunderstand 1 Cor 8:6, Paul is in fact accepting the existence of other beings called "gods" and "lords", such as Satan who is "the god of this age", many translations spuriously add "So-called" to try to downplay this common Theology that existed even in Josephus's time, Josephus even interpreted the Torah to include a prohibition on blaspheming the gods of other nations, so this concept that gods of other nations were real, which the Septuagint of Deuteronomy 32:8 suggests is true, was probably well circulated during Paul's time as well. The verse has little to do with the Trinity except in defining what the word "god" is often employed as.

Perhaps this thread is better under the debate section, as a "discussion" on such a sensitive topic of essential orthodox Christian doctrine will hardly remain a "discussion".
 
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fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Are there any Christians who have rejected the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament? I have known a few in real life and they come to the conclusion that the Pauline chapters of the new Testament are not divinely inspired.
Considering the nature of how Paul came to know Isa it has been debate by a few minor Christian movement that Paul has no relevance to to the Bible. This mainly stems from how Paul separates Jesus from god as a second entity himself. For examples verses 1 Corinthians 8:6 and 1 Corinthians 1:30 establish this notion.

As some have mentioned, there are groups that do reject Paul. I can speak from a few perspectives, based on my background.

Fundamentalists and evangelicals (at least those who were a part of the church I belonged to and briefly ministered at) accept Paul fully. They see no problems between the two, and in fact, read both the Gospels and Paul as supporting the idea of a Trinity. Since Paul was said to have had his message revealed to him by Jesus, the message then is what Jesus wanted.

Lutherans (and I'm speaking more from an academic perspective here; specifically from the ELCA branch, which is more liberal), also accept Paul. They do differentiate between Paul and pseudo-Paul. The also tend to accept that there are problems in the Pauline work. Part of this is with interpolations, others have to do with misunderstanding, and others have to do with Paul possibly changing his mind a bit, or being swept up in his arguments. They don't reject Paul, but see that there are difficulties with Paul (Catholics, at least the more liberal ones, see it this way as well. This is what is generally taught in mainline seminary, as well as mainline colleges).

Personally, I align more with Progressive Christianity. Again, no rejection of Paul, but an understanding that Paul is complicated. Some of the so called Pauline ideas are rejected (and this is true with the Lutherans I described above), such as men being superior to women (which are considered interpolations, or pseudo-Paul). But Paul as a whole is accepted.

Just as a side note. Much of Pauline thought in Christian circles is going towards what is called the "New Perspective" (part of it is also going to a subset of that group called a "Radical New Perspective") on Paul. This is something accepted by most scholars and theologians, regardless of denomination (at least in regards to mainstream groups). This has caused, in many denominations, a new found respect and admiration of Paul. So Paul is being more accepted by many.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
The biggest factor with the acceptance of everything Pauline is many Christians believe that every word in the Bible is God inspired.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
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ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
They do exist but they should not reject the Pauline epistles. Saint Paul was a true apostle of the Lord and he taught the Truth.
 

Goblin

Sorcerer
As someone who delved into several versions of christian theology.
Whether people agree or not i see paul as the actual creator of christianity, and reject him fully.

(No offence meant to pauline christians)

After reading it sounds like Yeshuas reform movement was an offshoot tradition of the Mandean religion and the Nazarene like Essenes.

His teacher was John the baptist who was endowed with the same christ as yeshua.

The mandeans are in todays academics called "a gnostic religion"
Gnostic is ancient greek for hippie new ager.

Jesus was a mystic with similar realizations of all the great prophets in their later days.
The dissolution of dreams and ideas projected onto the world (which in old school lingo are "fleshly sins and desires") in favor of an eternal trurh which doesnt need to be thought about to be real.

Jesus or Yeshua respectfully was a prophet who is "one with God"
(But so was his guru John the Baptist.)

Yeshua sounds like my homeless newage friend in colorado.
Draws parallels between jesus and his own revelation.
In the same way jesus drew parallels between his own revelations and mosaic tradition and prophecy.
Setting himself in a place as the jewish Messiah so the jews would listen to his saving message placing loving compassion above duty.

Paul and peter rejected all other christian religions to help form the catholic church
These fanatics i feel missed the point.
They missed all the teaching in favor of hero worship and its justifications.

Each tradition held differant interpretations of the gospels and each tradition had a different set of epistles
Paul interpreted christs message for two thpusand years. Anything that went against paul was considered heretical and the other christians were burned as witches


Ive put together what i call the gnostic Bible
Old testament;
Genesis
Enoch
Exodus
Psalms
Proverbs
Wisdom of solomon
-------
For it to be a christian bible it must have the four gospels
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John
Acts
-----------
The lost gospels used in favor of pauls epistles are;
Secret gospel of John
Thomas
Pitis sophia
Mary
Philip
Judas
The Nazarene fragment

James
Revelation


This is whats in my bible
Its nonpauline christianity
 

Apologes

Active Member
Err, do those people even understand how much theological (and historical!) material they're throwing away, unjustifiably at that? They're really not doing Christianity a favor there..

On another note, I'm with the majority here as I consider the Pauline epistles to be of immense value even surpassing the gospels when it comes to certain things. As for Paul seperating Jesus from God:

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

Paul (just like most Christians today) considered Jesus to be God, but not the Father. Trinity speaking here.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Are there any Christians who have rejected the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament? I have known a few in real life and they come to the conclusion that the Pauline chapters of the new Testament are not divinely inspired.
Considering the nature of how Paul came to know Isa it has been debate by a few minor Christian movement that Paul has no relevance to to the Bible. This mainly stems from how Paul separates Jesus from god as a second entity himself. For examples verses 1 Corinthians 8:6 and 1 Corinthians 1:30 establish this notion.

I haven't rejected them, but I will admit that IMHO ,Christianity would be a much simpler religion if we simply relied on the Gospels for doctrine. I've noticed that the vast majority of denominational differences come not from the words of Christ, but the words of Paul.
 
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