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Relationships And The Bhagavad-Gita

Konjim

Member
In the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna informs Arjuna that this type of yoga was spoken millions of years before that to the Sun God. His name is Vivasvan. He then spoke it to Manu, who then spoke it to his son named Iksvaku. By this process it came down in time from one speaker to another. This is the normal way from knowledge to come down is through a succession of teachers and disciples or students. Over time the science as he had presented as it had become lost. It needed to be spoken again, and so it was, in India 5000 years ago on the battlefield.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
You are only saying that because that is exactly what the book says.

You only believe what the book says because you want absolute certainty.

You could have chosen some other book, or some other teacher, and then you would be absolutely certain of something else.

You are assuming that you have enough enlightenment to determine what the truth is, and which teacher to believe. So, whether you admit this to yourself or not, you are making your ego the ultimate authority ( by the assumption that you can tell a bona fide spiritual master from a fake ), and disguising that fact by following the ISKCON script.

You chose to believe in 'bona fide spiritual masters'. You chose who the 'bona fide' ones are. And then you use their script to justify your 'certainty'.

The logic is entirely circular, and you are placing an each-way bet - " I am an illusioned soul in need of teaching", AND " I am enlightened enough to decide what the correct teaching is".

See what you did there ?
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Why?.......

It is my opinion, and the opinion of most Hindus, that Prabhupada preaches ideas that go against the tenets of the Vedas. He was an extremist and a dualist. I place his ideas on the same level as fundamental Christianity (like born-agains and evangelists).

One thing I've noticed is that he often provides commentary that has nothing to do with the text it is linked with and rambles on about things that are not relevant and that are contradictory.

I do think there are good things about him and his teachings but I would not recommend him as a representation of Hinduism. He himself said that the religion he establish is not 'Hinduism'.

Having said that, you can read the texts without any issue. I only have problems with his commentaries, as they do not, I believe, always represent Krishna's teachings.
 

En'me

RightBehindEveryoneElse
In the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna informs Arjuna that this type of yoga was spoken millions of years before that to the Sun God. His name is Vivasvan. He then spoke it to Manu, who then spoke it to his son named Iksvaku. By this process it came down in time from one speaker to another. This is the normal way from knowledge to come down is through a succession of teachers and disciples or students. Over time the science as he had presented as it had become lost. It needed to be spoken again, and so it was, in India 5000 years ago on the battlefield.

So what did you want do debate about???

And I agree with Madhuri on Prabhupada.
 
I have the Bhagavad Gita with commentary by Prabhupada, do you think this is a good version?

The only reason why anyone would read that translation would be because one is a) doing comparative commentaries of the Gita, b) studying Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Prabhupada's opinions are Victorian, antiquated and downright inapplicable in any modern society of today.

Otherwise, I would prefer something like Eknath Easwaran, which is easy to pick up, and a beautiful read, in my most humble opinion. If you want one based on Vaishnavism but applicable to modernity, check out the translation by Tripurari Swami!

:yes:
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
It is my opinion, and the opinion of most Hindus, that Prabhupada preaches ideas that go against the tenets of the Vedas. He was an extremist and a dualist. I place his ideas on the same level as fundamental Christianity (like born-agains and evangelists).

One thing I've noticed is that he often provides commentary that has nothing to do with the text it is linked with and rambles on about things that are not relevant and that are contradictory.

I do think there are good things about him and his teachings but I would not recommend him as a representation of Hinduism. He himself said that the religion he establish is not 'Hinduism'.

Having said that, you can read the texts without any issue. I only have problems with his commentaries, as they do not, I believe, always represent Krishna's teachings.

I agree with your comments. I still read the Bhagavad Gita, and after over 40 years of reading it, despite huge changes in my life and attitudes, the essential wisdom in it remains inspiring.

I still read the Prabhupad translation. The actual verses seem to be translated very well. I agree that the purports seem to have a life of their own, almost as if the actual verses were just a pretext to write them. So I just read the verses, which are sufficient in themselves.

And yes, Prabupada does seem to be a dualist, despite Caitanya's teaching of acintya bedaabeda tattva. I considered this for decades, wondering if he presented it that way to discourage 'premature emancipation' and the inflammation of ego in western students who did not have the age-old hindu milieu around them to keep their view stable.

I was pleasantly surprised to have some deeper and more subtle communication with some of the older long-term devotees, which indicated that they did indeed appreciate the subtlety of Caitanya's view.

Generally though, I found the mood and views within ISKCON to be, as you say, fundamentalist and dualist. Gaura Priya's comments were also relevant and accurate IMO. Whilst I was not studying other forms of vaishnavism, I was a student of Tibetan buddhism, and also spent some time studying and practicing with a Mevlevi sufi sheikh, and so I was able to place Bhagavad Gita in a broader context. I ignored the hysteria about mayavadi and impersonalism. In the end, I appreciated the warnings about the dangers of impersonalism, but I think they were overstated, and that ISKCON go so far in the opposite direction that self-realisation is almost forbidden.

I will add that my experience resolves the apparent contradiction between the teaching of Buddha and the Bhagavad Gita. It surprises me how much fuss is made over the differences, and how attached people become to that fuss...
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Otherwise, I would prefer something like Eknath Easwaran, which is easy to pick up, and a beautiful read, in my most humble opinion. If you want one based on Vaishnavism but applicable to modernity, check out the translation by Tripurari Swami!

Well, it's always good to get recommendations. I find the version of the Gita I have to be very understandable, perhaps it's a matter of preference.

cheers
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, it's always good to get recommendations. I find the version of the Gita I have to be very understandable, perhaps it's a matter of preference.

cheers

That's fine, and as others have said the translation of the texts is quite good.
My only issue is with the commentary, as it only reflects the beliefs of a very small group of 'Hindus' and describes nothing of the deepest philosophical meanings.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
That's fine, and as others have said the translation of the texts is quite good.
My only issue is with the commentary, as it only reflects the beliefs of a very small group of 'Hindus' and describes nothing of the deepest philosophical meanings.

Understood, I'll check out other commentary. As the translation is accurate, that's good to know, too.
 
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