Religion as Human Expression

[angellous_evangellous]

Here's something that I have been thinking about, and can be interpreted as a development of my approach to religion as "whatever makes one feel warm and fuzzy."

I have been thinking for a while now that religion is a universal form of human expression, much like art and music. Religious myth-makers and interpreters have been at it since the dawn of humanity, sculpting and painting beautiful peices of theological art, which is the expression of the human spirit. There is just something more to a person who is endowed with a special talent for art and music, and I think that a similar quality is found in poets and myth-makers.

Some groups have paintings and art interpretations, and say that there really is no other "true" art. Their art is from the only artist! Of course we know that there are many artists, and many wonderful types of art. Or, some will defend their musician with dogmatic ferver. They only listen to one type of music, nevermind that the 12 note scale is far more sophisticated than the 5 note scale. Some will read only one type of poetry, ignoring Shakespeare or Keats.

Just a thought.

 

[Buttons*]

Well since i view Gods as personified thought, i agree with you 110%.....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well since i view Gods as personified thought, i agree with you 110%.....

Could it be that Romans 1 is true when it says that all things created know their creator and this is the where the overwhelming desire to describe God comes from?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Are non-Christians able to post on this thread as it's in the Christian forum? If not, will a MOD please move this thread to the appropriate place? I'd like anyone to be able to discuss this... thanks!

 

[d.]

i agree - different cultures have different religions. religion is very closely linked to art, language, culture and so on. i personally see religion as cultural expression.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

i personally see religion as cultural expression.

Yes!

In my post, I was focusing on the individual myth-maker as artist or musician. The human community that accepts a religion or religions makes it a "cultural expression." As a communal expression of culture, I think that religion is the oldest form of human government that only recently has been seperated from the state...

 

[sojourner]

Yes!

In my post, I was focusing on the individual myth-maker as artist or musician. The human community that accepts a religion or religions makes it a "cultural expression." As a communal expression of culture, I think that religion is the oldest form of human government that only recently has been seperated from the state...

This is a really interesting idea, and one I've been mulling over for years. It's one of the reasons why I'm a universalist (little "u"). All religions seek to provide meaning for humanity on a roughly spiritual basis. All religions agree that there is something out there better, or greater, or deeper, than what we experience here and now. Whatever that is. Maybe that's the only thing we can all agree on.

I also agree that religion is heavily invested in the culture.

I, too, would be interested in the voices of other religions in this topic. Thanks, AE!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This is a really interesting idea, and one I've been mulling over for years. It's one of the reasons why I'm a universalist (little "u"). All religions seek to provide meaning for humanity on a roughly spiritual basis. All religions agree that there is something out there better, or greater, or deeper, than what we experience here and now. Whatever that is. Maybe that's the only thing we can all agree on.

I also agree that religion is heavily invested in the culture.

I, too, would be interested in the voices of other religions in this topic. Thanks, AE!

I am a Christian, and I have been meditating long and hard over a simple question, "Where does God's grace end?" Eternal damnation for belief or non-belief in the supernatural seems like condemning someone for their taste in art or music, and that does not appear becoming of the descriptors that Christians use for God. If God really is just, beautiful, and loving, how can we justify God sending more people to "hell" than to "heaven" with little to no regard for how they live their lives? Sadly, such reasoning is why religion (belief followed by ritual) has replaced ethics in Christianity.

 

[sojourner]

I am a Christian, and I have been meditating long and hard over a simple question, "Where does God's grace end?" Eternal damnation for belief or non-belief in the supernatural seems like condemning someone for their taste in art or music, and that does not appear becoming of the descriptors that Christians use for God. If God really is just, beautiful, and loving, how can we justify God sending more people to "hell" than to "heaven" with little to no regard for how they live their lives? Sadly, such reasoning is why religion (belief followed by ritual) has replaced ethics in Christianity.

Your last sentence here really caught my attention. Right now I'm taking a course in the history and polity of the Stone-Campbell movement. The disconnect in the two earliest splits in that movement (the Disciples of Christ and the Churches of Christ) represent exactly the disconnect you talk about here. Your statement is very "Stoneite" in nature, whose guiding principle was built on the love of God. This is one of the reasons why I tend to be more universalist.

 

[michel]

Are non-Christians able to post on this thread as it's in the Christian forum? If not, will a MOD please move this thread to the appropriate place? I'd like anyone to be able to discuss this... thanks!

Sorry it took so long; it didn't work yesterday.

 

[mrs_angellous_evangellous]

We can only work out of our own human experiences. We cannot live out of others experiences. So even through there are multiple types of every kind of expression we only relate personally to what we know. So Christians (and I am assuming that you are talking about Christianity) all over the world will experience God differently and try to explain Him differently base on their experiences. I can't imagine how Chinese Christians will express Christ differently that myself. I guess that would apply to all religion forms as well.

 

[robtex]

Nate, I would concur with your post # 1. Irregardless if the deity in any religion exists or not the philosophy attributed to that deity as it is interpreted still can and many times does hold value. Funny on the timing of this thread my boss at my day time job asked me what I thought of daycare centers having Jesus children books and I said it was a good idea because the morality structured around such books was a socially positive thing to share with those children.

I watched a show once with Christoper Reeves on it, whom if you are not aware, was an atheist and when asked about his non-belief and Jesus stated he didn't believe in Jesus but he believed in the message of Christ as presented in the NT

Another atheist with a similar notion is Brian Flemming director of "The God Who Wasn't There." He is qouted as calling himself a "atheist Christian" When asked by Christianty today about it he said,

" Christianity proclaims is basically completely wrong, that didn't mean Jesus was evil. It didn't mean Jesus was bad. Jesus is in many ways still a great character. As you see in the movie, when he calls for everybody who doesn't want him to reign over them to be killed, that's not the Jesus I'm talking about. But the Jesus that I hold in my mind as the Jesus who taught me my moral values in many ways, I don't want to lose that."

source: http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/interviews/brianflemming.html

The sum of any religion could be seen as the interpretation of its values and how it is practiced by those who follow it. I think the idea of religion as a univesal form of expression is a great way to view religion and one that breed tolerance not only of other beliefs but of a subjective analysis to morality in general.

 

[Mister_T]

I am a Christian, and I have been meditating long and hard over a simple question, "Where does God's grace end?" Eternal damnation for belief or non-belief in the supernatural seems like condemning someone for their taste in art or music, and that does not appear becoming of the descriptors that Christians use for God. If God really is just, beautiful, and loving, how can we justify God sending more people to "hell" than to "heaven" with little to no regard for how they live their lives? Sadly, such reasoning is why religion (belief followed by ritual) has replaced ethics in Christianity.

:highfive: I too have meditated on this. I've been trying to put this concept into words but could never spit it out. But you sir, did it perfectly. :clap

 

[FFH]

I love your opening post. I feel the same way when it comes to Christian religions. Some are abstract, while others are life like, and clear, like Norman Rockwell.

 

[FFH]

I am a Christian, and I have been meditating long and hard over a simple question, "Where does God's grace end?" Eternal damnation for belief or non-belief in the supernatural seems like condemning someone for their taste in art or music, and that does not appear becoming of the descriptors that Christians use for God. If God really is just, beautiful, and loving, how can we justify God sending more people to "hell" than to "heaven" with little to no regard for how they live their lives? Sadly, such reasoning is why religion (belief followed by ritual) has replaced ethics in Christianity.

This is exactly why there are three different degrees of glory.

Celestial
Terrestrial
Telestial

God compares these three different worlds to the sun, the moon, and the stars. Just as there are different types of creatures; the birds, the fish, and the beasts, there are also different types of worlds, or kingdoms, because we all appreciate different things. Hell will not be anyones permanent home, but is set up to refine, as gold is refined by fire.

Celestial - Sun
Terrestrial - Moon
Telestial - Stars

1 Corinthians 15: 39-41 Joseph Smith Translation (Joseph Smith adds the telestial, which is missing from the KJV. There are clearly three kingdoms, or glories, because of the following verse's reference to the sun, the moon, and the stars.)

39= All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40- Also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial, and bodies telestial; but the glory of the celelestial, one; and the terrestrial, another; and the telestial, another.

41- There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

This completes the painting, except for Outer Darkness, which is not hell. Hell is a temporary seperate dwelling, set up to refine a person, as fire refines gold, silver, and brass. We will suffer for our own sins if we do not turn from them, and ask God the Father for forgiveness, through his Son and his atonement.

 

[Popeyesays]

With the spirit of this thread, let me whole-heartedly agree. I think that the innate desire of the human is to realize the connection with the Creator, even when an individual may have consciously given up on the very concept of having a creator in the first - this is the basic impulse which unites all people and cultures together in what is, in my opinion, an unbreakable bond amongst mankind.

And if this is true, and there really IS a Creator then His longing to reconnect with us must be just as great. And this truth is expressed in all of mankind's search for the meaning to his own existence.

I would offer these verses from my religion that, I believe, express that notion.

"3. O SON OF MAN!
Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
4. O SON OF MAN!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
5. O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
6. O SON OF BEING!
Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.
7. O SON OF MAN!
If thou lovest Me, turn away from thyself; and if thou seekest My pleasure, regard not thine own; that thou mayest die in Me and I may eternally live in thee."
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

 

[FFH]

This is the way I see things. It is not just a black and white painting, There are many colors on the canvas, using the color spectrum of the rainbow. There are deep dark blues and purples of the night skies, at dusk (telestial); Maroons, reds and oranges, at sunset (terrestrial); and yellows, and bright whites of the sun, as it rises in the morning (Celestial); with black (Outer Darkness) to contrast all of these colors, and to allow us to appreciate them. Any place would be better than Outer Darkness. Only those who cannot appreciate any colors, of the rainbow spectrum, will end up there.

 

[sojourner]

Unfortunately, too many religious people idolize absolutes. Too many want to foist the version of what makes them warm and fuzzy upon everyone else.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Unfortunately, too many religious people idolize absolutes. Too many want to foist the version of what makes them warm and fuzzy upon everyone else.

We just can't keep some people from sticking gum on the painting.

 

[Maxist]

Oh yes, they sculpt, they paint. But they mold lies, they erect fear, they strike the anvil against stone to creat theological greatness to accomplish nothing save the total control of their followers. Nothing more.