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Religion in the Middle Ages

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Religion in the Middle Ages

"Christianity did not immediately win the hearts and minds of the people of Europe. The process of Christianization was a slow one and, even toward the end of the Middle Ages, many people still practiced 'folk magic' and held to the beliefs of their ancestors even while observing Christian rites and rituals. The pre-Christian people – now commonly referenced as 'pagans' – had no such label for themselves. The word 'pagan' is a Christian designation from the French meaning a 'rustic,' one who came from the rural countryside, where the old beliefs and practices held tightly long after urban centers had more or less adopted orthodox Christian belief....

The belief in fairies, sprites, and ghosts ('ghosts' defined as spirits of the once-living) was so deeply embedded that parish priests allowed members of their congregations to continue practices of appeasement even though the Church instructed them to make clear such entities were demonic and not to be trifled with. Rituals involving certain incantations and spells, eating or displaying certain types of vegetables, performing certain acts or wearing a certain type of charm – all pagan practices with a long history – continued to be observed alongside going to Church, veneration of the saints, Christian prayer, confession, and acts of contrition....

In the Late Middle Ages (1300-1500 CE), the Church continued to root out heresy on the large scale by suppressing upstart religious sects, individually by encouraging priests to punish heterodox belief or practice, and by labeling any critic or reformer a 'heretic' outside of God's grace. The peasantry, though nominally orthodox Catholic, continued to observe folk practices and, as scholar Patrick J. Geary notes, "knowledge of Christian belief did not mean that individuals used this knowledge in ways that coincided with officially sanctioned practice" (202). Since a medieval peasant was taught the prayers of the Our Father and Hail Mary in Latin, a language they did not understand, they recited them as incantations to ward off misfortune or bring luck, paying little attention to the importance of the words as understood by the Church. The mass itself, also conducted in Latin, was equally mysterious to the peasantry....

The unending struggle to bring the peasantry in line with orthodoxy eventually relented as practices formerly condemned by the Church – such as astrology, oneirology (the study of dreams), demonology, and the use of talismans and charms – were recognized as significant sources of income. Sales of relics like a saint's toe or a splinter of the True Cross were common and, for a price, a priest could interpret one's dreams, chart one's stars, or name whatever demon was preventing a good marriage for one's son or daughter..."


Who won in this instance? It seems like despite all the work the Church has tried to keep people in line with Orthodox Christian practices; it cannot be done, and Pagan Folk beliefs always win out.

(Number of adherents does not equal the true number of Orthodox believers).
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Religion in the Middle Ages

"Christianity did not immediately win the hearts and minds of the people of Europe. The process of Christianization was a slow one and, even toward the end of the Middle Ages, many people still practiced 'folk magic' and held to the beliefs of their ancestors even while observing Christian rites and rituals. The pre-Christian people – now commonly referenced as 'pagans' – had no such label for themselves. The word 'pagan' is a Christian designation from the French meaning a 'rustic,' one who came from the rural countryside, where the old beliefs and practices held tightly long after urban centers had more or less adopted orthodox Christian belief....

The belief in fairies, sprites, and ghosts ('ghosts' defined as spirits of the once-living) was so deeply embedded that parish priests allowed members of their congregations to continue practices of appeasement even though the Church instructed them to make clear such entities were demonic and not to be trifled with. Rituals involving certain incantations and spells, eating or displaying certain types of vegetables, performing certain acts or wearing a certain type of charm – all pagan practices with a long history – continued to be observed alongside going to Church, veneration of the saints, Christian prayer, confession, and acts of contrition....

In the Late Middle Ages (1300-1500 CE), the Church continued to root out heresy on the large scale by suppressing upstart religious sects, individually by encouraging priests to punish heterodox belief or practice, and by labeling any critic or reformer a 'heretic' outside of God's grace. The peasantry, though nominally orthodox Catholic, continued to observe folk practices and, as scholar Patrick J. Geary notes, "knowledge of Christian belief did not mean that individuals used this knowledge in ways that coincided with officially sanctioned practice" (202). Since a medieval peasant was taught the prayers of the Our Father and Hail Mary in Latin, a language they did not understand, they recited them as incantations to ward off misfortune or bring luck, paying little attention to the importance of the words as understood by the Church. The mass itself, also conducted in Latin, was equally mysterious to the peasantry....

The unending struggle to bring the peasantry in line with orthodoxy eventually relented as practices formerly condemned by the Church – such as astrology, oneirology (the study of dreams), demonology, and the use of talismans and charms – were recognized as significant sources of income. Sales of relics like a saint's toe or a splinter of the True Cross were common and, for a price, a priest could interpret one's dreams, chart one's stars, or name whatever demon was preventing a good marriage for one's son or daughter..."


Who won in this instance? It seems like despite all the work the Church has tried to keep people in line with Orthodox Christian practices; it cannot be done, and Pagan Folk beliefs always win out.

(Number of adherents does not equal the true number of Orthodox believers).
Aren't many churches still in The Middle Ages
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I would venture that tollerating paganism was a trade off for getting new recruits but then again was there even a choice by the late medaeval period.
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
Nunnery.jpg
It is a fascinating subject @The Hammer . One of my favourite places is the Scottish island of Iona. These are a part of the remains of an ancient convent there. Although it is very faint, there remains, carved into the wall an image of a woman which could be described as pornographic. The Christians who built the place still used customs from the old religion to ward off evil spirits.

The island has strong associations with St Columba. He referred to Jesus as "his druid".

If anybody gets the chance, the island is well worth a visit.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Who won in this instance? It seems like despite all the work the Church has tried to keep people in line with Orthodox Christian practices; it cannot be done, and Pagan Folk beliefs always win out.
The Enlightenment and science were much more successful in rooting out superstition. Which doesn't say much as there is still a majority of people who believe in one kind of woo or the other.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
View attachment 63776 It is a fascinating subject @The Hammer . One of my favourite places is the Scottish island of Iona. These are a part of the remains of an ancient convent there. Although it is very faint, there remains, carved into the wall an image of a woman which could be described as pornographic. The Christians who built the place still used customs from the old religion to ward off evil spirits.

The island has strong associations with St Columba. He referred to Jesus as "his druid".

If anybody gets the chance, the island is well worth a visit.

Was the image of a Sheela Na Gig?
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
I refuse to take advantage of the mental shortcomings of my fellow humans.

You're using words (speaking/reading/writing), so you are already using our reliance on woo (abstraction).

I don't find it a mental shortcoming. I find it is a feature, not a bug. As long as it isn't abused, there is healing in it.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
You're using words (speaking/reading/writing), so you are already using our reliance on woo (abstraction).

I don't find it a mental shortcoming. I find it is a feature, not a bug. As long as it isn't abused, there is healing in it.
Well, from my point of view, "using it to my benefit" would be to ask money for a cold reading Tarot session.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Well, from my point of view, "using it to my benefit" would be to ask money for a cold reading Tarot session.

That's not using it to ones benefit, if the other party is benefitting too (even if they only 'think' so, iyo). Then it's an exchange of goods and services.

By your logic, to write a story that others find meaning in their life from, is also "abusing others" for ones benefit.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
View attachment 63776 It is a fascinating subject @The Hammer . One of my favourite places is the Scottish island of Iona. These are a part of the remains of an ancient convent there. Although it is very faint, there remains, carved into the wall an image of a woman which could be described as pornographic. The Christians who built the place still used customs from the old religion to ward off evil spirits.

The island has strong associations with St Columba. He referred to Jesus as "his druid".

If anybody gets the chance, the island is well worth a visit.
I'm not seeing the image...can you highlight or otherwise direct my eye? Thanks!
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
That's not using it to ones benefit, if the other party is benefitting too (even if they only 'think' so, iyo). Then it's an exchange of goods and services.

By your logic, to write a story that others find meaning in their life from, is also "abusing others" for ones benefit.
Good point. I'd still feel bad as I believe the benefit for the other isn't real. I could never accept money for "magic" healing. (I do suggestions (lesser form of hypnosis) sometimes and it works, but it's a placebo.)
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Good point. I'd still feel bad as I believe the benefit for the other isn't real. I could never accept money for "magic" healing. (I do suggestions (lesser form of hypnosis) sometimes and it works, but it's a placebo.)

Do you not learn lessons and morals from stories?

Aesop's fables for instance? I'd never felt taken advantage of for something I sought out of my own accord.

Edit: Some people in the Pagan community do not perform Magick on others without their consent.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
View attachment 63776 It is a fascinating subject @The Hammer . One of my favourite places is the Scottish island of Iona. These are a part of the remains of an ancient convent there. Although it is very faint, there remains, carved into the wall an image of a woman which could be described as pornographic. The Christians who built the place still used customs from the old religion to ward off evil spirits.

The island has strong associations with St Columba. He referred to Jesus as "his druid".

If anybody gets the chance, the island is well worth a visit.
Why does this conjure imagery from The Wicker Man in my head right now? :eek::D
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Religion in the Middle Ages

"Christianity did not immediately win the hearts and minds of the people of Europe. The process of Christianization was a slow one and, even toward the end of the Middle Ages, many people still practiced 'folk magic' and held to the beliefs of their ancestors even while observing Christian rites and rituals. The pre-Christian people – now commonly referenced as 'pagans' – had no such label for themselves. The word 'pagan' is a Christian designation from the French meaning a 'rustic,' one who came from the rural countryside, where the old beliefs and practices held tightly long after urban centers had more or less adopted orthodox Christian belief....

The belief in fairies, sprites, and ghosts ('ghosts' defined as spirits of the once-living) was so deeply embedded that parish priests allowed members of their congregations to continue practices of appeasement even though the Church instructed them to make clear such entities were demonic and not to be trifled with. Rituals involving certain incantations and spells, eating or displaying certain types of vegetables, performing certain acts or wearing a certain type of charm – all pagan practices with a long history – continued to be observed alongside going to Church, veneration of the saints, Christian prayer, confession, and acts of contrition....

In the Late Middle Ages (1300-1500 CE), the Church continued to root out heresy on the large scale by suppressing upstart religious sects, individually by encouraging priests to punish heterodox belief or practice, and by labeling any critic or reformer a 'heretic' outside of God's grace. The peasantry, though nominally orthodox Catholic, continued to observe folk practices and, as scholar Patrick J. Geary notes, "knowledge of Christian belief did not mean that individuals used this knowledge in ways that coincided with officially sanctioned practice" (202). Since a medieval peasant was taught the prayers of the Our Father and Hail Mary in Latin, a language they did not understand, they recited them as incantations to ward off misfortune or bring luck, paying little attention to the importance of the words as understood by the Church. The mass itself, also conducted in Latin, was equally mysterious to the peasantry....

The unending struggle to bring the peasantry in line with orthodoxy eventually relented as practices formerly condemned by the Church – such as astrology, oneirology (the study of dreams), demonology, and the use of talismans and charms – were recognized as significant sources of income. Sales of relics like a saint's toe or a splinter of the True Cross were common and, for a price, a priest could interpret one's dreams, chart one's stars, or name whatever demon was preventing a good marriage for one's son or daughter..."


Who won in this instance? It seems like despite all the work the Church has tried to keep people in line with Orthodox Christian practices; it cannot be done, and Pagan Folk beliefs always win out.

(Number of adherents does not equal the true number of Orthodox believers).

Thank you for posting this information, The Hammer. It helps me better understand how paganism greatly influenced Christianity.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Religion in the Middle Ages

"Christianity did not immediately win the hearts and minds of the people of Europe. The process of Christianization was a slow one and, even toward the end of the Middle Ages, many people still practiced 'folk magic' and held to the beliefs of their ancestors even while observing Christian rites and rituals. The pre-Christian people – now commonly referenced as 'pagans' – had no such label for themselves. The word 'pagan' is a Christian designation from the French meaning a 'rustic,' one who came from the rural countryside, where the old beliefs and practices held tightly long after urban centers had more or less adopted orthodox Christian belief....

The belief in fairies, sprites, and ghosts ('ghosts' defined as spirits of the once-living) was so deeply embedded that parish priests allowed members of their congregations to continue practices of appeasement even though the Church instructed them to make clear such entities were demonic and not to be trifled with. Rituals involving certain incantations and spells, eating or displaying certain types of vegetables, performing certain acts or wearing a certain type of charm – all pagan practices with a long history – continued to be observed alongside going to Church, veneration of the saints, Christian prayer, confession, and acts of contrition....

In the Late Middle Ages (1300-1500 CE), the Church continued to root out heresy on the large scale by suppressing upstart religious sects, individually by encouraging priests to punish heterodox belief or practice, and by labeling any critic or reformer a 'heretic' outside of God's grace. The peasantry, though nominally orthodox Catholic, continued to observe folk practices and, as scholar Patrick J. Geary notes, "knowledge of Christian belief did not mean that individuals used this knowledge in ways that coincided with officially sanctioned practice" (202). Since a medieval peasant was taught the prayers of the Our Father and Hail Mary in Latin, a language they did not understand, they recited them as incantations to ward off misfortune or bring luck, paying little attention to the importance of the words as understood by the Church. The mass itself, also conducted in Latin, was equally mysterious to the peasantry....

The unending struggle to bring the peasantry in line with orthodoxy eventually relented as practices formerly condemned by the Church – such as astrology, oneirology (the study of dreams), demonology, and the use of talismans and charms – were recognized as significant sources of income. Sales of relics like a saint's toe or a splinter of the True Cross were common and, for a price, a priest could interpret one's dreams, chart one's stars, or name whatever demon was preventing a good marriage for one's son or daughter..."


Who won in this instance? It seems like despite all the work the Church has tried to keep people in line with Orthodox Christian practices; it cannot be done, and Pagan Folk beliefs always win out.

(Number of adherents does not equal the true number of Orthodox believers).
This seems to be rather a naive article.
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
The belief in fairies, sprites, and ghosts ('ghosts' defined as spirits of the once-living) was so deeply embedded that parish priests allowed members of their congregations to continue practices of appeasement even though the Church instructed them to make clear such entities were demonic and not to be trifled with. Rituals involving certain incantations and spells, eating or displaying certain types of vegetables, performing certain acts or wearing a certain type of charm – all pagan practices with a long history – continued to be observed alongside going to Church


Fairy Hill at Cawdor Castle.jpg

This too has not completely vanished. This is a Fairy Hill in the Grounds of Cawdor Castle in Scotland. The present Countess forbids people from going on the hill. Sometimes permission is given to approach the hill and make a ritual offering of Whisky, honey and venison. These I am told are favourites of the fairy folk.
In the picture, my friend has got about as close as you are allowed.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
This seems to be rather a naive article.


Seems pretty well sourced to me:

Baker, A. The Viking. Wiley, 2019.

Barber, M. The Cathars: Dualist Heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages. Routledge, 2000.

Brooke, R & C. Popular Religion in the Middle Ages. Barnes & Noble Books, 1996.

Cantor, N. F. The Civilization of the Middle Ages. Harper Perennial, 1994.

De Rougemont, D. Love in the Western World. Princeton University Press, 1983.

Deanesley, M. A History of the Medieval Church 590-1500. Obscure Press, 2010.

Gies, F. & J. Women in the Middle Ages. Ty Crowell Co, 2019.

Loyn, H. R. The Middle Ages: A Concise Encyclopedia. Thames & Hudson, 1991.

Nigg, W. The Heretics. Dorset Press, 2019.

Patrick J. Geary. "Peasant Religion in Medieval Europe." Cahiers d'Extreme-Asie, Volume 12/2001, pp. 185-209.

Power, E. Medieval Women. Cambridge University Press (1997-10-13), 2019.

Trachtenberg, J. The Devil and the Jews:

The Medieval Conception of the Jew and
Its Relation to Modern Anti-Semitism. The Jewish Publication Society, 2002.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Seems pretty well sourced to me:

Baker, A. The Viking. Wiley, 2019.

Barber, M. The Cathars: Dualist Heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages. Routledge, 2000.

Brooke, R & C. Popular Religion in the Middle Ages. Barnes & Noble Books, 1996.

Cantor, N. F. The Civilization of the Middle Ages. Harper Perennial, 1994.

De Rougemont, D. Love in the Western World. Princeton University Press, 1983.

Deanesley, M. A History of the Medieval Church 590-1500. Obscure Press, 2010.

Gies, F. & J. Women in the Middle Ages. Ty Crowell Co, 2019.

Loyn, H. R. The Middle Ages: A Concise Encyclopedia. Thames & Hudson, 1991.

Nigg, W. The Heretics. Dorset Press, 2019.

Patrick J. Geary. "Peasant Religion in Medieval Europe." Cahiers d'Extreme-Asie, Volume 12/2001, pp. 185-209.

Power, E. Medieval Women. Cambridge University Press (1997-10-13), 2019.

Trachtenberg, J. The Devil and the Jews:

The Medieval Conception of the Jew and
Its Relation to Modern Anti-Semitism. The Jewish Publication Society, 2002.
It just is not credible to maintain that people did not know the meaning of basic prayers. Latin was used a lot in those days and countless hymns and carols contain bits of Latin, the meaning of which was obviously well understood by the people. There are versions of the Lord’s Prayer in Old English.
 
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