Religion is Heartbreaking

[Spiderman]

This is coming from someone who's spirituality, belief in and communicating with God and the supernatural world, asceticism, and studying sacred texts and the writings of mystics and different Religions is everything. I'd live for nothing but pleasure, be quite selfish and dead without Religion/Spirituality.

Yet there are few things more sad than the history of Religion.

What is disgusting is how many people have hatred to the point of killing people for not adhering to beliefs that can never be proven.

It is about as irrational, immature, and stupid as it is sad.

What do you think?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I really don't see it as a problem with religion as I do as a problem with people who would achieve, further, and retain power by any means necessary. The Church long used nothing more than the "will of God" to further their agenda, while many atheist nations have hijacked Marx to label what they don't like as bourgeoisie decadence. Some leaders say what they must to get people to support their conquests of ethnic cleansing or gathering resources. To Machiavelli, just the pursuit of political power alone is enough to use people as means to an end.
If anything is the problem, it's centralized power that all too often attracts the absolute worst our species has to offer.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm a bad Pope for saying this but Im 100% convinced God exists , but think He sucks at his job

I'm also 99% convinced that almost all the religious corruption and evil in our world is a result of God refusing to enlighten people, give them healthy minds, emotions, desires, and guidance.

It really ticks me off (and Often let God know how much I think He sucks) but keep praying because I have experienced it as a more powerful and enriching force and practice than other things tried.

 

[metis]

I'm a bad Pope for saying this but Im 100% convinced God exists , but think He sucks at his job

I'm also 99% convinced that almost all the religious corruption and evil in our world is a result of God refusing to enlighten people, give them healthy minds, emotions, desires, and guidance.

It really ticks me off (and Often let God know how much I think He sucks) but keep praying because I have experienced it as a more powerful and enriching force and practice than other things tried.

Not to say that it is right, although it's literally impossible for it to be wrong, you might consider the approach that I take that can be found in my faith statement that I use as my signature at the bottom of each of my posts.

 

[Spiderman]

Not to say that it is right, although it's literally impossible for it to be wrong, you might consider the approach that I take that can be found in my faith statement that I use as my signature at the bottom of each of my posts.

Yeah... If only that were religion.

No wonder the Jews complained. They had every reason to , Mr. God!

 

[Demonslayer]

What do you think?

What I think...and this is not meant as a dig at you...is that it is super sad that without religion/spirituality you'd be selfish and/or dead.

I find reliance on religion as a crutch to be a good person, a happy person, a kind person, or to have a productive life, to be incredibly sad.

Occasionally the topic comes up that goes something like "if you knew there was no God enforcing commandments or morality, would you suddenly go murdering and raping people." To my dismay, many of the most fundamentally religious people I talk to say "yes."

I find that just impossible to believe.

 

[metis]

Yeah... If only that were religion.

No wonder the Jews complained. They had every reason to , Mr. God!

Is my halo showing? Damn--er, I mean darn-- I gotta fix that.

Actually, it is "religion" of sorts, as I can walk into any religious congregation and feel right at home, and I have done that a lot over the years, btw. When I go to my wife's church, I enjoy it. When I go to synagogue, I enjoy that too. If I go into a mosque, I can appreciate that as well. Instead of praying, I more meditate on what I should or shouldn't do, and on what actions I may take that may be moral or immoral in a humanistic way. I think pretty much all religions/denominations honstly try to find God or Gods, but I also think they go way too far in claiming that they really know.

Ever read anything about Baruch Spinoza? One of my all-time favorite theology books is "A Book Forged In Hell" by Steven Nadler. With some minor variations, I pretty much take Spinoza's position on these matters. Sure helps to put my mind at ease and not have to try and force a square peg down a round hole.

 

[Spiderman]

What I think...and this is not meant as a dig at you...is that it is super sad that without religion/spirituality you'd be selfish and/or dead.

I find reliance on religion as a crutch to be a good person, a happy person, a kind person, or to have a productive life, to be incredibly sad.

Occasionally the topic comes up that goes something like "if you knew there was no God enforcing commandments or morality, would you suddenly go murdering and raping people." To my dismay, many of the most fundamentally religious people I talk to say "yes."

I find that just impossible to believe.

No im saying without prayer I feel suicidal or empty. It is what strengthens me. If you have no use for prayer and something else that empowers you , I respect that

 

[Spiderman]

Is my halo showing? Damn--er, I mean darn-- I gotta fix that.

Actually, it is "religion" of sorts, as I can walk into any religious congregation and feel right at home, and I have done that a lot over the years, btw. When I go to my wife's church, I enjoy it. When I go to synagogue, I enjoy that too. If I go into a mosque, I can appreciate that as well. Instead of praying, I more meditate on what I should or shouldn't do, and on what actions I may take that may be moral or immoral in a humanistic way. I think pretty much all religions/denominations honstly try to find God or Gods, but I also think they go way too far in claiming that they really know.

Ever read anything about Baruch Spinoza? One of my all-time favorite theology books is "A Book Forged In Hell" by Steven Nadler. With some minor variations, I pretty much take Spinoza's position on these matters. Sure helps to put my mind at ease and not have to try and force a square peg down a round hole.

Nah never read that book , but yeah I've been to a mosque and enjoyed praying with Sufi muslims.

If their religion was just about dressing modestly, fasting, praying five times a day on a prayer carpet, and pilgrimage to mecca, I would see it as a beautiful religion.

The problem is they turn it into an oppressive, intolerant, totalitarian Government, which is what totally left me with contempt for Islam.

 

[metis]

Nah never read that book , but yeah I've been to a mosque and enjoyed praying with Sufi muslims.

If their religion was just about dressing modestly, fasting, praying five times a day on a prayer carpet, and pilgrimage to mecca, I would see it as a beautiful religion.

The problem is they turn it into an oppressive, intolerant, totalitarian Government, which is what totally left me with contempt for Islam.

Unfortunately, that has been done in all too many religions and denominations. As long as there are human beings running these organizations, this is gonna happen at times.

Let me recommend you get the book-- seriously. Agree with him or not, Spinoza was and is an eye-opener to the point whereas Einstein said he believed in "Spinoza's God". .

 

[Demonslayer]

No im saying without prayer I feel suicidal or empty.

Yes, I get it and I find that sad. If something could somehow convince you there was no God and your prayers were empty words/thoughts, you might kill yourself. That seems incredibly sad to me, that you couldn't find other reasons for living.

I've been chastised before for comparing religion to drugs, but this is one of the reasons I make the comparison. One thing that becomes so overwhelmingly important to someone that the rest of their lives end up feeling empty and meaningless without it.

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, I get it and I find that sad. If something could somehow convince you there was no God and your prayers were empty words/thoughts, you might kill yourself. That seems incredibly sad to me, that you couldn't find other reasons for living.

I've been chastised before for comparing religion to drugs, but this is one of the reasons I make the comparison. One thing that becomes so overwhelmingly important to someone that the rest of their lives end up feeling empty and meaningless without it.

The thing is there are people here in America who have three meals a day, a nice house, nice car, Healthcare, and nobody is physically aggressive upon them, yet they are more miserable than some people in concentration camps or third world countries.

At times I seem to fall close to that category. The thing is, I'm not very satisfied with many passing Pleasures or occupation.

Those things are good and enhance the quality of life and relieve misery no doubt , but to weigh the cheap passing joy that they give compared to just avoiding responsibility and killing myself would be a difficult choice ( if I had no faith. )

But you are right. It is sad, but some people are miserable and religion gives them relief or motivation to keep going rather than give in to the temptation to end it

 

[Riverwolf]

I've been chastised before for comparing religion to drugs, but this is one of the reasons I make the comparison. One thing that becomes so overwhelmingly important to someone that the rest of their lives end up feeling empty and meaningless without it.

I can think of PLENTY of everyday things that would make your average Westerner feel "empty and meaningless" if it were to get taken away.

Heck, I don't even have to limit it to Westerners with some things.

So, frankly, the chastisement is well-deserved. It's insensitive to the highly destructive nature of addiction, and ignores the fact that there's a lot more harmful about addictions to certain substances than simple dependency.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can think of PLENTY of everyday things that would make your average Westerner feel "empty and meaningless" if it were to get taken away.

Heck, I don't even have to limit it to Westerners with some things.

So, frankly, the chastisement is well-deserved. It's insensitive to the highly destructive nature of addiction, and ignores the fact that there's a lot more harmful about addictions to certain substances than simple dependency.

And not to mention the medical benefits of some drugs for treating some conditions. Molly is proving very effective at treating PTSD, psilocybin is great for depression and anxiety, and I'm finding that cannabidiol has made a profound difference with my IBS symptoms.
And, of course, with drug addiction and abuse you rarely find someone who doesn't have some deeply-seated problems that lead to their condition. Their lives are in shambles, drugs offer an escape, but they don't fix the problems, but seeking "the escape" isn't a good coping method, unfortunately too many people resort to it, and because it doesn't fix anything the life is still in shambles and it no longer becomes about an escape but a chemical dependence on the drug (or whatever...even food and sex can be addictive and unhealthily abused).

 

[Riverwolf]

And not to mention the medical benefits of some drugs for treating some conditions. Molly is proving very effective at treating PTSD, psilocybin is great for depression and anxiety, and I'm finding that cannabidiol has made a profound difference with my IBS symptoms.
And, of course, with drug addiction and abuse you rarely find someone who doesn't have some deeply-seated problems that lead to their condition. Their lives are in shambles, drugs offer an escape, but they don't fix the problems, but seeking "the escape" isn't a good coping method, unfortunately too many people resort to it, and because it doesn't fix anything the life is still in shambles and it no longer becomes about an escape but a chemical dependence on the drug (or whatever...even food and sex can be addictive and unhealthily abused).

It's video games, and these days Youtube videos, for me.

And this is why I don't drink alcohol or go to casinos. Being emotionally dependent on the former two during really hard times is relatively benign by comparison. And religion is far more comparable to those former two, as far as being an emotional comfort during hard times.

 

[Neo Deist]

Yeah... If only that were religion.

It is. It's called deism.

 

[Spiderman]

It is. It's called deism.

I meant if Religion in our world was more like that where people can be fervent without trying to force others to believe what they do under the threat of not getting some eternal reward or going to a place of eternal damnation.

That is when religion becomes thoroughly disgusting to me.

 

[blue taylor]

Deism is a religion in "our world". It is simply not a religion based on words on paper written by warped people. It is based on a person looking at the world around them and at the world in them, and learning by experience instead of by coercion, lies and force.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is coming from someone who's spirituality, belief in and communicating with God and the supernatural world, asceticism, and studying sacred texts and the writings of mystics and different Religions is everything. I'd live for nothing but pleasure, be quite selfish and dead without Religion/Spirituality.

What do you think?

I think that if you lost your religion, you'd find what you'd do for pleasure would differ little from what you do now.
Perhaps many believers feel that atheism offers a life of sybaritic indulgences.
But instead we typically live pretty similar lives to most of the faithful.

 

[Neo Deist]

Deism is a religion in "our world". It is simply not a religion based on words on paper written by warped people. It is based on a person looking at the world around them and at the world in them, and learning by experience instead of by coercion, lies and force.