Religion - Some Questions

[Madsaac]

Hi, I don't hang around many religious people and it's hard to talk to them about the following so that's why I'm here, maybe to get some understanding.

Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.

Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.

However you will say there are good things about religion, like community, caring, ritual, etc but can't community groups like your local football club, for example do what religion does. Such as community, caring, working for a similar cause, discipline etc. There are hundreds of groups like this which can make a person feel good and be part of something.

And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion

Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'

Thanks

 

[Regiomontanus]

"Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? "

Right on, brother!

Christian Socialism is something I have been giving a lot thought to for several years. Socialism is our only hope for the true kingdom of God to be here on Earth, as in Heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? "
Right on, brother!
Christian Socialism is something I have been giving a lot thought to for several years. Socialism is our only hope.

Jesus taught that the God Ruled Theocracy ( God's Kingdom government - Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14 ) is our only hope.
Only hope because Jesus is King of God's Kingdom that will govern over Earth for a thousand years - 1st. Cor. 15:24-26

 

[Regiomontanus]

Thanks for quoting me before I submitted by edits, brother

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.
Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.
However you will say there are good things about religion, like community, caring, ritual, etc but can't community groups like your local football club, for example do what religion does. Such as community, caring, working for a similar cause, discipline etc. There are hundreds of groups like this which can make a person feel good and be part of something.
And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion
Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'
Thanks

Jesus was Not a socialist but a theocrat for God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come....... ) - Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14
Jesus did Not feed everyone, Jesus did Not heal everyone. Jesus gave priority to teaching and preaching - Luke 4:43
That is because his teachings include Not just a temporary fix or help but a permanent solution.
Jesus gave a New Commandment found at John 13:34-35; 15:12 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. In other words, we are now to love neighbor More than self, More than the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
So, Jesus' feeding and healing were a sample or a coming attraction, a preview on a small scale of what Jesus will be doing on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000 year reign over Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
As the neighborly Good Samaritan gave and showed demonstrating practical love to another in distress so can we.
On a one-on-one basis we can broaden out, widen out in showing practical love to others including telling others about the good news (gospel) about God's Kingdom coming as Jesus instructed his followers to do at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8

 

[Regiomontanus]

Jesus was Not a socialist but a theocrat for God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come....... ) - Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14
Jesus did Not feed everyone, Jesus did Not heal everyone. Jesus gave priority to teaching and preaching - Luke 4:43
That is because his teachings include Not just a temporary fix or help but a permanent solution.
Jesus gave a New Commandment found at John 13:34-35; 15:12 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. In other words, we are now to love neighbor More than self, More than the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
So, Jesus' feeding and healing were a sample or a coming attraction, a preview on a small scale of what Jesus will be doing on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000 year reign over Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
As the neighborly Good Samaritan gave and showed demonstrating practical love to another in distress so can we.
On a one-on-one basis we can broaden out, widen out in showing practical love to others including telling others about the good news (gospel) about God's Kingdom coming as Jesus instructed his followers to do at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8

You say He was not a socialist, yet when you then quote my Savior's words, you are preaching it.

We can argue over what we mean, exactly, by socialism, but clearly if Jesus was preaching on earth today he would be against capitalism- even if primarily because of the ecological devastation it it causing, an affront to the Good Creation. IMHO.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.........Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'
Thanks

Back in the '60's (I was young) and at a club where many young persons hung out I decided to ask a number of them if they went to church? Yes, some said because of parents, it's the thing to do, or even don't go.
Only one person answered to go to church to worship God.
If I had the opportunity to do that over again I would have asked what they thought of the Bible.
I found out that just 'going to church to worship God' was often on a person's own terms and Not on Bible terms.

 

[Stevicus]

Hi, I don't hang around many religious people and it's hard to talk to them about the following so that's why I'm here, maybe to get some understanding.

Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.

Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.

However you will say there are good things about religion, like community, caring, ritual, etc but can't community groups like your local football club, for example do what religion does. Such as community, caring, working for a similar cause, discipline etc. There are hundreds of groups like this which can make a person feel good and be part of something.

And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion

Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'

Thanks

Welcome to Religious Forums!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You say He was not a socialist, yet when you then quote my Savior's words, you are preaching it.
We can argue over what we mean, exactly, by socialism, but clearly if Jesus was preaching on earth today he would be against capitalism- even if primarily because of the ecological devastation it it causing, an affront to the Good Creation. IMHO.

Seems to me Jesus was Not preaching about any of men's kingdoms aka governments but about God's Kingdom.
Jesus as King aka President of God's theocratic kingdom government in the hands of Christ Jesus.
Please notice how the nations are described at Psalm 2.
They will Not relinquish their sovereignty to Jesus so ecological devastation, etc. will Not go away.
Today's news is as described at 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,13 with men going from bad to worse.
Bad to worse until Jesus will put a stop to it.- Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[Madsaac]

Jesus was Not a socialist but a theocrat for God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come....... ) - Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14
Jesus did Not feed everyone, Jesus did Not heal everyone. Jesus gave priority to teaching and preaching - Luke 4:43
That is because his teachings include Not just a temporary fix or help but a permanent solution.
Jesus gave a New Commandment found at John 13:34-35; 15:12 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. In other words, we are now to love neighbor More than self, More than the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
So, Jesus' feeding and healing were a sample or a coming attraction, a preview on a small scale of what Jesus will be doing on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000 year reign over Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
As the neighborly Good Samaritan gave and showed demonstrating practical love to another in distress so can we.
On a one-on-one basis we can broaden out, widen out in showing practical love to others including telling others about the good news (gospel) about God's Kingdom coming as Jesus instructed his followers to do at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8

Thanks for the reply.

You may refer to a number of passages like this but I'm pretty sure the main message from Jesus was to care for your fellow man. And there is a whole plethora of passages within the bible expressing this.

And the world we live in apart from a few parts, does not demonstrate the care that Jesus would like for our fellow man.

Also, why does someone need to know these passages, can't you be a good person without knowing them?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hi, I don't hang around many religious people and it's hard to talk to them about the following so that's why I'm here, maybe to get some understanding.

Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.

Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.

However you will say there are good things about religion, like community, caring, ritual, etc but can't community groups like your local football club, for example do what religion does. Such as community, caring, working for a similar cause, discipline etc. There are hundreds of groups like this which can make a person feel good and be part of something.

And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion

Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'

Thanks

I must disagree with that. It’s not religion which causes suffering. Religion teaches love and compassion. Its peoples disobedience to the law of love which religion teaches that is the cause of suffering. If religion teaches love and people hate, that’s not religions fault.

 

[1213]

...Why aren't you all socialists?

I think socialism is evil, legalized theft. Not what Jesus taught.

Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.

The difference between Jesus and socialism is that socialism forces people to give money to politicians and their friends, while Jesus encourages people to do freely good to others. Jesus doesn't force people to give anything. I think it is also good to notice this:

…the laborer is worthy of his wages...
Luke 10:7

A socialists disagrees and demands part of it for himself, without offering anything useful. But, it is true that Christians should do good and be generous.

The wicked borrow, and don't pay back, But the righteous give generously.
Ps. 37:21
Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys.
Luke 12:33
Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt. 6:19-21
He answered them, "He who has two coats, let him give to him who has none. He who has food, let him do likewise."
Luke 3:11

So, if a Christian sees someone without food or clothes, he should give him those, if he has extra. But, interestingly it is also said that Christians should work to help others and not be burden for others.

In all things I gave you an example, that so laboring you ought to help the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive'.
Acts 20:35
Let him who stole steal no more; but rather let him labor, work-ing with his hands the thing that is good, that he may have something to give to him who has need.
Eph. 4:28
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: "If anyone will not work, neither let him eat."
2 Thess. 3:10

Main difference between a Christians and a socialist is, a socialist says, "gimme some money", while Christian says "how can I help you". Christian socialism works when at least 50 % of the people have the Christian idea to help others and not to be burden for others. Then the socialist group can survive on the expense of the Christians.

Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.

I think it is people who have done that. Religion can't be blamed on the actions people make.

And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion

I don't worry about death or afterlife. Eternal life is promised only for righteous. Person who is a Christian only in attempt to get eternal life, is probably not righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... I'm here, maybe to get some understanding.

Good luck.

 

[ChristineM]

Welcome to RF, enjoy.

 

[sayak83]

Hi, I don't hang around many religious people and it's hard to talk to them about the following so that's why I'm here, maybe to get some understanding.

Firstly, if you are a Christian and you follow Jesus - Why aren't you all socialists? Wasn't Jesus about sharing and caring? Christians may share a little but nowhere near enough, not to the levels that Jesus would expect. And I know we all can't be perfect and Jesus will forgive us.......but if you really did want forgiveness, shouldn't you sacrifice so much more? I think your maker will not be happy with you at all.

Secondly, religion has caused an enormous amount of suffering throughout history. Surely this suggests it doesn't work.

However you will say there are good things about religion, like community, caring, ritual, etc but can't community groups like your local football club, for example do what religion does. Such as community, caring, working for a similar cause, discipline etc. There are hundreds of groups like this which can make a person feel good and be part of something.

And if you're worried about what happens after you die, can't you just believe what you want without being part of a religion

Finally, I think one of the large majority of people are religious is because there parents where, not because they 'found the light'

Thanks

Is your question specifically to Christians.
You might get more varied responses from people of other religious inclinations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....You may refer to a number of passages like this but I'm pretty sure the main message from Jesus was to care for your fellow man. And there is a whole plethora of passages within the bible expressing this.
And the world we live in apart from a few parts, does not demonstrate the care that Jesus would like for our fellow man.
Also, why does someone need to know these passages, can't you be a good person without knowing them?

I find even as atheist can be a neighborly good-person Samaritan in showing practical love for others.
But what Atheist will tell others about God's Kingdom (Dan. 2:44) as Jesus instructed to do at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8 ?
Mankind would have No hope without the teachings of Christ Jesus; just birth leading to permanent death.
Good deeds can Not keep a person alive forever. Resurrection is the Bible's promise.
Jesus to bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2 - good deeds can't bring global healing. Help ' yes ' cure ' No.'
This is why the main message is about the good news of God's Kingdom as the theme of Jesus' teachings - Luke 4:43

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I must disagree with that. It’s not religion which causes suffering. Religion teaches love and compassion. Its peoples disobedience to the law of love which religion teaches that is the cause of suffering. If religion teaches love and people hate, that’s not religions fault.

But, Not all religion because from the pulpit in times of war false clergy use the pulpit as a political recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their sons on the Altar of War teaching that it is the same as the Altar of God, but it is Not.
Jesus nor his followers ever taught such things even though there were many issues between the Jews and Romans.
So, I'd like to add that such suffering is Not the fault of the biblical teachings of Jesus, but going against his teachings.

 

[Madsaac]

I must disagree with that. It’s not religion which causes suffering. Religion teaches love and compassion. Its peoples disobedience to the law of love which religion teaches that is the cause of suffering. If religion teaches love and people hate, that’s not religions fault.

Religion may well teach love and compassion but it's not working. There are billions of people who could do with more love and compassion, the 'religious' know this and still do not enough. Should they/will they be judged harshly?

Also have not millions of people suffered under the guise of 'my religion is right and yours isn't?'

 

[Madsaac]

I think socialism is evil, legalized theft. Not what Jesus taught.

The difference between Jesus and socialism is that socialism forces people to give money to politicians and their friends, while Jesus encourages people to do freely good to others. Jesus doesn't force people to give anything. I think it is also good to notice this:

…the laborer is worthy of his wages...
Luke 10:7

A socialists disagrees and demands part of it for himself, without offering anything useful. But, it is true that Christians should do good and be generous.

The wicked borrow, and don't pay back, But the righteous give generously.
Ps. 37:21
Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys.
Luke 12:33
Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt. 6:19-21
He answered them, "He who has two coats, let him give to him who has none. He who has food, let him do likewise."
Luke 3:11

So, if a Christian sees someone without food or clothes, he should give him those, if he has extra. But, interestingly it is also said that Christians should work to help others and not be burden for others.

In all things I gave you an example, that so laboring you ought to help the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive'.
Acts 20:35
Let him who stole steal no more; but rather let him labor, work-ing with his hands the thing that is good, that he may have something to give to him who has need.
Eph. 4:28
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: "If anyone will not work, neither let him eat."
2 Thess. 3:10

Main difference between a Christians and a socialist is, a socialist says, "gimme some money", while Christian says "how can I help you". Christian socialism works when at least 50 % of the people have the Christian idea to help others and not to be burden for others. Then the socialist group can survive on the expense of the Christians.


I think it is people who have done that. Religion can't be blamed on the actions people make.

I don't worry about death or afterlife. Eternal life is promised only for righteous. Person who is a Christian only in attempt to get eternal life, is probably not righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

You said 'Jesus doesn't force people to give anything' so we need to make a choice whether to give. And you said 'Christians should do good and be generous'. However religious people are not making the right choice enough or being generous enough, there are billions of people who could do with religious people being more generous but they are not. So does religion work?

If Jesus was around today, where on the political spectrum would he sit. He would be definitely on the far left, he would vote for a socialist government or similar...yes?

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. have not millions of people suffered under the guise of 'my religion is right and yours isn't?'

That is one way of putting it..
..but if truth is distinct from falsehood ( which it is, imo), then it means that it is
human beings weakness for wealth & power that causes war & enmity,
and not religion per se.