Religiosity and parent-child communication?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not a parent myself, let alone a religious parent, but I've heard a few things over the past day or so that my brain decided to link together:

First, at a dinner party last night, I got talking to a couple - one cop and one ex-cop - about things they had seen while on the job. I won't get into the details, but the discussion ended up becoming focused on children, and the general take-away message was this: children and teenagers are easily victimized, and one of the best ways for a parent to guard against their children becoming victims is to make sure that the children are always comfortable talking about what's going on in their life without being fearful of the parent's reaction.

Now... with that in the back of my mind, I got listening to an atheist podcast today where people called in with their "deconversion" stories, and I noticed a theme that I've seen many other times: in the vast majority of cases, the people were (or had been) afraid of their parents' reaction to the news that they no longer believed in the religion they had been brought up in.

During the show, one of the callers - a 14-year-old girl - actually had to stop speaking and cover up what was going on because her mother walked within earshot. Once her mother left the room, the girl went on to talk about how she posts on discussion boards (probably not unlike this one), has her own YouTube channel where she posts videos about her views... and that her parents have absolutely no idea. There is this huge part of her life where she feels like she cannot share her thoughts and feelings with her parents.

This got me to thinking: I wonder how much this dynamic puts the children at risk. Setting aside the fact that a vulnerable girl (she sounded very articulate and intelligent, but at the end of the day, she is only 14) is interacting with people online in ways that her parents have absolutely no knowledge of, I wonder about things on a more fundamental level: as was put to me last night, it's fairly vital for a child's safety for the child to have the feeling that they can trust their parents with anything... and these children definitely do not feel this.

So - what does everyone think? Does it sacrifice a child's safety to raise him or her in an environment where they're expected to believe in one particular religion/denomination and nothing else is acceptable?

I'd especially be interested to hear from parents who do raise their children in this sort of an environment to hear how they navigate this issue.

 

[beenie]

It's a tough issue, especially when the parents themselves have been indoctrinated since their own childhood.

My husband and I were raised differently; he was raised strictly Muslim, and I come from a Muslim/Christian background (dad Muslim, but not fully "practicing", and mom Christian, and only recently "practicing"). I put "practicing" in quotes because neither of them were into the rituals of the religion, but definitely believed in the spirituality of it. I was raised on morals and the "golden rules", but rituals were not a part of our lives.

My husband was raised with rituals, religious education, indoctrination, etc. that most Muslims brought up in South Asia/Middle East will get. His family is very rooted in their religious teachings, and that's ok too.

When it comes to our children, we balance each other out. When he tries to push for more traditional rules, I remind him that we live in a society where being "different" is tough. Luckily, so far, my girls are strong and haven't run into much trouble with people from other faiths.

I'm not sure what my husband would think if any of our girls don't stay with Islam, but I do know that I would want them to come to us anyway; dialogue and compromise starts with communication. My daughters (especially the older ones) are questioning some things already, and naturally so. I guide them to where they can find the answer and pretty much allow them to take from it what they will.

I know for a fact that none of our children would ever be punished or shamed if they took another direction. After all, they are not our minions, and they have the right to take their own journeys. I'd be lying if I didn't hope it was somewhat close to ours, but I'm not delusional enough to think it's a guarantee.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not a parent myself, let alone a religious parent, but I've heard a few things over the past day or so that my brain decided to link together:

First, at a dinner party last night, I got talking to a couple - one cop and one ex-cop - about things they had seen while on the job. I won't get into the details, but the discussion ended up becoming focused on children, and the general take-away message was this: children and teenagers are easily victimized, and one of the best ways for a parent to guard against their children becoming victims is to make sure that the children are always comfortable talking about what's going on in their life without being fearful of the parent's reaction.

Now... with that in the back of my mind, I got listening to an atheist podcast today where people called in with their "deconversion" stories, and I noticed a theme that I've seen many other times: in the vast majority of cases, the people were (or had been) afraid of their parents' reaction to the news that they no longer believed in the religion they had been brought up in.

During the show, one of the callers - a 14-year-old girl - actually had to stop speaking and cover up what was going on because her mother walked within earshot. Once her mother left the room, the girl went on to talk about how she posts on discussion boards (probably not unlike this one), has her own YouTube channel where she posts videos about her views... and that her parents have absolutely no idea. There is this huge part of her life where she feels like she cannot share her thoughts and feelings with her parents.

This got me to thinking: I wonder how much this dynamic puts the children at risk. Setting aside the fact that a vulnerable girl (she sounded very articulate and intelligent, but at the end of the day, she is only 14) is interacting with people online in ways that her parents have absolutely no knowledge of, I wonder about things on a more fundamental level: as was put to me last night, it's fairly vital for a child's safety for the child to have the feeling that they can trust their parents with anything... and these children definitely do not feel this.

So - what does everyone think? Does it sacrifice a child's safety to raise him or her in an environment where they're expected to believe in one particular religion/denomination and nothing else is acceptable?

I'd especially be interested to hear from parents who do raise their children in this sort of an environment to hear how they navigate this issue.

I think you're spot on here. I have tried to raise my kids to be able to come to me with anything. if it's something I don't approve of, I tell them -- but I don't pass judgment. I do make them aware of the consequences of idiotic behavior. If they whine at the outcome (they're not usually disposed to do that), I say, "Well, and who told you that was a bad idea??? Now: What do you plan to do about it, and how can I be a resource?"

 

[ChristineES]

The other side could happen, too. I was raised in a non-religious home, and when I first started to believe in God, I didn't want to tell my mother because I thought she would make fun of me. She always would laugh and mock the televangelists back in the 70s and things of that nature.

She later became a theist herself, so the problem solved itself, but I wonder what would have happened if she would have stayed an atheist. I wonder if she would have accepted it. I am glad I didn't really have to go through that for very long. My son says he is an agnostic, and I don't push him one way or the other. I don't ridicule- I tell him that he needs to make up his own mind. My husband is a different story altogether, unfortunately.

That kind of thing can be a problem, parents should accept their children no matter what.

 

[Alceste]

Funny this should come up - I was talking to a woman at a party on Saturday and she recounted her childhood experience as the daughter of a preacher. She felt like she had to hide the vast majority of her personality, social life and behavior from her father - secretly climbing out of windows after bed time to meet boys, the whole nine yards. This behavior (predictably) culminated in a pregnancy just after her 16th birthday. 16 happened to be the age at which you don't need the permission of a parent in order to have an abortion in this province. Even at 40, she is still thankful for that happy coincidence. Her parents still don't know.

As a parent, she's consciously cultivated a completely different type of relationship with her teenage son. He tells her whatever he feels moved to share. Sometimes girls sleep over, sometimes he sleeps over at girls' houses, the parents all know about it and they all talk about it. The striking thing about the kids of these parents is that when we're sitting around the campfire having a few beers and tunes, they often hang out to chat and play music with us when they could be sneaking off together into the woods. They don't seem guarded, adversarial or secretive, the way the children of intolerant parents often do. Because they feel like a valued part of the same social group to which their parents belong, they don't go to far in creating a "new" culture just for themselves, which reduces the risks associated with starting from scratch.

To make a long story short, I think a high level of non-judgmental, open communication is a required quality for a successful role model, whether religious or not. I don't think religiosity necessarily inhibits communication, but authoritarianism certainly seems to.

 

[Madhuri]

I grew up in a very strict and fundamental religious family but my mother has always been wonderfully open with me and our relationship was always very close. She used to tell me that I could make my own decisions in life, that she wouldn't stop me or stop loving me, even if she disapproved. I can see how being comfortable to go to her for advise or just to talk really helped me stay out of trouble.

I agree with Alceste: religious family upbringing doesn't necessarily inhibit communication. It is an authoritarian parenting approach that can/does.

 

[Majikthise]

I have a 15 year old daughter. We go through the normal dad /daughter arguement stuff. I am an atheist, my wife is pagan. We have never pushed any kind of religious teachings on our daughter, none to push.
We believe religion or belief is something that you should discover on your own when you are ready. My wife describes herself as a recovering catholic and does not want to impose any beliefs on our children, I happen to agree.
We had her baptized in a Protestant church due to family pressure but that was as far as it went.
Our daughter knows she can talk to us about anything (though my wife does adress the female type stuff) but the teen vs. parent stuff still applies even without religious influence.
My wife and I both really believe a kid has enough pressure on them without having to deal with any religious dogma forced on them.
And for those who think otherwise...
My daughter is a straight a student, is compassionate and empathetic(as a teen can be) and stands up for the weak.
On her bus one day some kids were poking fun at an autistic girl. My daughter waited until the girl got off the bus( so as not to embarass her any further) and proceeded to tell them what a bunch off ***** they were and how would they like it if someone treated them like that. (she is "big boned" and very opinionated)
As much as my daughter can drive me up the wall , I am damn proud of her!
And no religion was required for her to realise any of this.

 

[Majikthise]

Another thing that made me happy and proud ... My wife tells me that my daughter told her that she loved the 3 hour conversation I had with her on evolution. My daughter is at an agricultural high school taking vetrinary courses and was looking into colleges in her freshman year. I know I'm going on, but I am so proud of her. Even though she thinks I hate her sometimes.
She had to put in alot of time and effort to be accepted into this school.

 

[Me Myself]

I have a 15 year old daughter. We go through the normal dad /daughter arguement stuff. I am an atheist, my wife is pagan. We have never pushed any kind of religious teachings on our daughter, none to push.
We believe religion or belief is something that you should discover on your own when you are ready. My wife describes herself as a recovering catholic and does not want to impose any beliefs on our children, I happen to agree.
We had her baptized in a Protestant church due to family pressure but that was as far as it went.
Our daughter knows she can talk to us about anything (though my wife does adress the female type stuff) but the teen vs. parent stuff still applies even without religious influence.
My wife and I both really believe a kid has enough pressure on them without having to deal with any religious dogma forced on them.
And for those who think otherwise...
My daughter is a straight a student, is compassionate and empathetic(as a teen can be) and stands up for the weak.
On her bus one day some kids were poking fun at an autistic girl. My daughter waited until the girl got off the bus( so as not to embarass her any further) and proceeded to tell them what a bunch off ***** they were and how would they like it if someone treated them like that. (she is "big boned" and very opinionated)
As much as my daughter can drive me up the wall , I am damn proud of her!
And no religion was required for her to realise any of this.

Another thing that made me happy and proud ... My wife tells me that my daughter told her that she loved the 3 hour conversation I had with her on evolution. My daughter is at an agricultural high school taking vetrinary courses and was looking into colleges in her freshman year. I know I'm going on, but I am so proud of her. Even though she thinks I hate her sometimes.
She had to put in alot of time and effort to be accepted into this school.

Parental succes!

 

[heretic]

This is a critical issue to me , I'm a new father , my first son is about 1.5 year old , but religious raising was one of the things which I'm thinking of vey much .

to be honest , yes I want to raise my children with my religious believes, but I'm aware that it will be difficult to build the required awareness ,

It may look a little selfish , but I love my children and I want them the best , of course I will not hate them is they will not agree with me

what I intend to do is to educate myself so I can answer what they may ask in a way that is logical and suitable to their mental and emotional personalities

What do you think ?

 

[BruceDLimber]

You might want to consider the Baha'i approach.

Baha'is have the obligation to see that their children are educated about ALL the great religions and their mutual validity! (Baha'i schools of course assist in this.)

Then when the child reaches the Age of Maturity (15), he or she may choose:

• to become Baha'i
• to become something else
• to become nothing whatever

And the parents MAY NOT interfere in this decision (nor may anyone else)!

Works great for us!

Bruce

 

[Majikthise]

You might want to consider the Baha'i approach.

Baha'is have the obligation to see that their children are educated about ALL the great religions and their mutual validity! (Baha'i schools of course assist in this.)

Then when the child reaches the Age of Maturity (15), he or she may choose:

• to become Baha'i
• to become something else
• to become nothing whatever

And the parents MAY NOT interfere in this decision (nor may anyone else)!

Works great for us!

Bruce

Still sounds like alot to put on a kid to fulfill YOUR obligation.

 

[Noaidi]

My step-daughter was not exposed to any religion during her upbringing at home. My partner and I left it up to her to decide whether she wanted to accept or reject any religion. She flirted briefly with Christianity and Buddhism, but now she has decided that religion is not for her.

The pupils I teach, however, are a different matter. Over the years, a few have come to me expressing their atheism, but feel unable to tell their parents (I live and work in a very fundamentalist Christian part of the UK). They are open with me in terms of not wanting to attend religious school assemblies, (and I make alternative arrangements for them in these circumstances), but they will attend any religious school ceremony where parents are invited, purely because they don't want their parents to note their absence and start asking them questions. Some feel that their parents will be disappointed in them if they reject the household faith, and would rather play along and "show face".

 

[BruceDLimber]

Still sounds like alot to put on a kid to fulfill YOUR obligation.

On the contrary, we find all this ideal for all concerned!

Not to mention being in compliance with the procedures laid out in our scriptures . . .

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Vinayaka]

Parenting isn't easy, ever. I swung from conservative to quite liberal over 14 years apart and 5 kids. The last one left the home, at least temporarily at aged 20, just last week.

There are tough daily decisions, compacted by your own moods, the kids moods, an ever changing society with changing norms of behavior, peer groups, a more liberal media, changing peers, money, desires, nature, and a whole lot more.

There is never an easy answer. Second guessing choices and decisions are commonplace, yet probably not healthy. There is worry, worry, and more worry.

I tend to think I improved over time, yet some of the later ones had more trouble with boys and booze, etc. Still they all managed to keep core values of honesty and such and none are in jail, decent citizens on the planet.

Yes the traditional ones suffer, and become the wildest ones around often. Isn't it Texas that has the highest teenage pregnancy rate? I worry for them. I saw a few too may unwanted pregnancies out there. Deceit breeds deceit. My kids can still tell me anything, whether I like it or not.

Best of luck to all parents.