"Religious Conservatives Lash Out at Kellogg’s Over 'Anti-Christian' Cereal"

[Darkforbid]

You asked for evidence that homosexuality wasn't a choice, I linked to six studies which all present evidence for genetic components of homosexuality.

What are you struggling to understand? Do you contest that these six studies are evidence that homosexuality is not a choice?

See post #193

 

[ImmortalFlame]

See post #193

So you accept that what I have provided is evidence that homosexuality is not a choice?

Yes or no? And then we can move on from this endless circle.

 

[Darkforbid]

So you accept that what I have provided is evidence that homosexuality is not a choice?

Yes or no? And then we can move on from this endless circle.

No you've presented resurch suggesting that homosexuality is caused by genetics causing abnormal brain development in one study and other studies like;

our analyses show that many loci underlie same-sex sexual behavior in both sexes. In aggregate, all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in male and female same-sex sexual behavior, and the genetic influences were positively but imperfectly correlated between the sexes [genetic correlation coefficient (rg)= 0.63; 95% confidence intervals, 0.48 to 0.78]. These aggregate genetic influences partly overlapped with those on a variety of other traits, including externalizing behaviors such as smoking, cannabis use, risk-taking, and the personality trait “openness to experience.” Additional analyses suggested that sexual behavior, attraction, identity, and fantasies are influenced by a similar set of genetic variants (rg > 0.83); however, the genetic effects that differentiate heterosexual from same-sex sexual behavior are not the same as those that differ among nonheterosexuals with lower versus higher proportions of same-sex partners, which suggests that there is no single continuum from opposite-sex to same-sex preference.

CONCLUSION
Same-sex sexual behavior is influenced by not one or a few genes but many. Overlap with genetic influences on other traits provides insights into the underlying biology of same-sex sexual behavior, and analysis of different aspects of sexual preference underscore its complexity and call into question the validity of bipolar continuum measures such as the Kinsey scale. Nevertheless, many uncertainties remain to be explored, including how sociocultural influences on sexual preference might interact with genetic influences.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No you've presented resurch suggesting that homosexuality is caused by genetics causing abnormal brain development in one study and other studies like;

our analyses show that many loci underlie same-sex sexual behavior in both sexes. In aggregate, all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in male and female same-sex sexual behavior, and the genetic influences were positively but imperfectly correlated between the sexes [genetic correlation coefficient (rg)= 0.63; 95% confidence intervals, 0.48 to 0.78]. These aggregate genetic influences partly overlapped with those on a variety of other traits, including externalizing behaviors such as smoking, cannabis use, risk-taking, and the personality trait “openness to experience.” Additional analyses suggested that sexual behavior, attraction, identity, and fantasies are influenced by a similar set of genetic variants (rg > 0.83); however, the genetic effects that differentiate heterosexual from same-sex sexual behavior are not the same as those that differ among nonheterosexuals with lower versus higher proportions of same-sex partners, which suggests that there is no single continuum from opposite-sex to same-sex preference.

CONCLUSION
Same-sex sexual behavior is influenced by not one or a few genes but many. Overlap with genetic influences on other traits provides insights into the underlying biology of same-sex sexual behavior, and analysis of different aspects of sexual preference underscore its complexity and call into question the validity of bipolar continuum measures such as the Kinsey scale. Nevertheless, many uncertainties remain to be explored, including how sociocultural influences on sexual preference might interact with genetic influences.

Now you're just being obtuse.

If you can't understand what evidence is when it's put in front of you, why bother asking for it?

 

[columbus]

Nevertheless, many uncertainties remain to be explored, including how sociocultural influences on sexual preference might interact with genetic influences.

This is really the point. Sexual proclivities are extremely complex, simple definitive answers just don't exist. Especially for any given individual, because all of us are unique.

'One likely candidate eliciting such change is alpha-fetoprotein, recently implicated in mediating a hormonal effect on brain development associated with sexual behavior'

is probably true, but only one small aspect of some people.

The only simple response to someone demanding proof that orientation isn't usually a choice has been repeated over and over. "When did you choose your orientation?"

I certainly didn't, I tried for years to straighten myself out. I didn't want to be gay. Nothing worked. Once I let go of the denial, I was free to find a compatible partner and get on with my life.
What's wrong with that?
Tom

 

[Darkforbid]

This is really the point. Sexual proclivities are extremely complex, simple definitive answers just don't exist. Especially for any given individual, because all of us are unique.

is probably true, but only one small aspect of some people.

The only simple response to someone demanding proof that orientation isn't usually a choice has been repeated over and over. "When did you choose your orientation?"

I certainly didn't, I tried for years to straighten myself out. I didn't want to be gay. Nothing worked. Once I let go of the denial, I was free to find a compatible partner and get on with my life.
What's wrong with that?
Tom

 

[Jose Fly]

It's fascinating how a company saying "We'd like to show our support for the LGBTQ community" generates so much reaction.

And for some folks, all one can say is.....haters gonna hate.

 

[columbus]

View attachment 33919

Believe it or not, not everything is about you.
I posted that on the internet.

You're quite free to stay under your rock, I'm still going to post my mind.
Tom

 

[columbus]

It's fascinating how a company saying "We'd like to show our support for the LGBTQ community" generates so much reaction.

And for some folks, all one can say is.....haters gonna hate.

What's deeply ironic here is that the founder of Kellogg's was a sexual freak. He wouldn't even have sex with his wife to make babies.

I'm not making any claims about Mr Kellogg. But the fact is that a man of means, in that time and place, could easily have been a pedophile. He could well afford to buy children for ugly purposes and keep a lid on his secret.
Tom

 

[Jose Fly]

What's deeply ironic here is that the founder of Kellogg's was a sexual freak. He wouldn't even have sex with his wife to make babies.

I'm not making any claims about Mr Kellogg. But the fact is that a man of means, in that time and place, could easily have been a pedophile. He could well afford to buy children for ugly purposes and keep a lid on his secret.
Tom

Ever see the movie "The Road to Wellville"? Anthony Hopkins plays Harvey Kellogg, and does so in a way that's surprising (for Hopkins).

 

[columbus]

Ever see the movie "The Road to Wellville"? Anthony Hopkins plays Harvey Kellogg, and does so in a way that's surprising (for Hopkins).

No.
It sounds like a docudrama.
Where shysters use a few facts to make their forgettable fiction more saleable.
Tom

 

[Jose Fly]

No.
It sounds like a docudrama.
Where shysters use a few facts to make their forgettable fiction more saleable.
Tom

Oh no, it's a comedy (and not a very good one) and it certainly doesn't paint Harvey Kellogg in a positive light. He's depicted as a bit of a lunatic who's obsessed with health and living forever, while holding some completely bizarre ideas. The depiction of his death is particularly funny.

 

[ecco]

Perhaps many people turn to drugs because they feel hatred from parents and peers and pastors and priests and online posters toward non-straights.

Are you saying Gay people have such a miserable life they turn to drugs?

Why do you ask what I am saying? My comment should be very clear to anyone with a ninth-grade education. If that doesn't include you, then I will reword it so that an eight-year-old can understand it.

 

[columbus]

Nevertheless, many uncertainties remain to be explored, including how sociocultural influences on sexual preference might interact with genetic influences.

There's something else I want to point out.
This conclusion leaves out something. The chemical stew we all live in. Minute amounts of molecules that didn't exist while we evolved.

Long story short, my mother's second episode of breast cancer was a weird form of cancer. Apparently it's driven by estrogen. One of the things she and I learned while dealing with it was all the stuff around us that mimics the effects of estrogen in the body. Processed soy. Many plastics, when they're heated. The hormones given to factory farmed livestock. The list is nearly endless.

Since we couldn't really trust her around a stove, for safety reasons, I did almost all her cooking. Do you have any idea how hard it is to fix batches of food, that you can freeze in individual servings, that your fussy mom can eat, when you can't be there every single day?
Try feeding someone, in modern America, a diet that doesn't include soy, factory farmed meat, and isn't packaged in plastic.

It got me to thinking. If these government approved products might well be contributing to breast cancer in elderly women, what might the long term effects be on developing humans? Especially the unborn humans?
Like me.

How much did the chemical stew I was gestated in, around the steel mills near Chicago, have to do with my orientation? What about the packaging on my baby formula, I'm adopted. Etc.
As far as I can see, there's no way to know. But I sure didn't choose it.
Tom

 

[ecco]

Acceptance isn't a human right nor is it his right to label anything that doesn't accept his lifestyle bigotry

Sounds like you're saying everyone who disagrees with your lifestyle is bigoted which is incredibly conceited

His lifestyle is not my lifestyle. However, most civil people can recognize bigotry when we see it or hear it. Your disdain for homosexuals is bigotry - period.

 

[ecco]

Well I suggest you prove that by explaining the cause of Gay-ness

GodDidIt.


Does that work for you? If not, NatureDidIt.

If you think it is a choice or that it can be "cured" you are ignorant of at least some aspects of nature.

 

[ecco]

The cause of black skin is very well known, and as I know gay men who have ****ed their way though half the lesbians in Oxford why are you lying about gay not being a choice

With all due respect, I doubt you know anyone who ever attended oxford.

 

[ecco]

Because any psychologist will tell you blaming an outside source is a fundamental attribution error

Are you sure you want to make that assertion?

• You are one of those people who blame "outside sources" for people becoming homosexuals or lesbians.
• You are one of those people who are convinced that people become gay because of what they see on cereal boxes.
• You are one of those people who believe that homosexuals can be cured by "outside sources".

In addition to being bigoted, you appear to be very confused, or, at best, hypocritical.

 

[columbus]

With all due respect, I doubt you know anyone who ever attended oxford.

He didn't say he attended or knows anyone who went to college.

There's an Oxford in Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Arkansas, and Connecticut.

Tom

 

[columbus]

GodDidIt.

Here's the thing.
If God, in His infinite wisdom, decided that humans need to slow down on the procreation why wouldn't He just make more people gay?
Easy Peasy. No wars or starvation, we just are less inclined towards potentially fertile sex and therefore have fewer babies.
Tom