Religious families with secular family members

[The Transcended Omniverse]

There are many religious families with secular family members. I will just talk about Christianity here. The God in the bible literally hates secular humanists with a secular worldview that never changes. He thinks they are disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation in hell and he thinks they are reprehensible. The idea of Christianity is to be a model after Jesus/God as close as we possibly can since we are supposed to be like God/Jesus as close as we can.

This being the case, it would logically follow that you are supposed to hate your secular family members who live with an unchanging secular worldview since they are disgusting sinners who won't change and are deserving of hell. But I see many Christians still showing them love and compassion. I find this contradictory. It contradicts God's horrible moral nature. This clearly shows that secular humanism is vastly superior to the moral standard of the Christian God because the love that Christians display towards their unchanging secular family members is a secular love and moral righteousness.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's mostly just affectation and belief theatre. Most people are not going to ruin familial relationships over such stuff because their familial relationships are far more solid and important. I suspect in cases where people will disown or abuse family members because of differing beliefs, that it also has little to do with the actual beliefs, and probably more to do with the fact that those people are just miserable and petty regardless.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

If you have a son, daughter, or parent that you deeply love and he/she does not believe in your religion and such a religion promotes the doctrine of condemnation and hell for those who do not believe and do not serve your religious god or figure, then you would have to accept this as a tragic burden and fact of your daily life. It just shows how horrible and ludicrous such religious doctrines are because you would have to accept that your most loved parent or spouse is going to be punished, condemned, and will go to hell.

I personally find the love that we have for our parents and siblings to be a secular contradiction to these sorts of dogmatic doctrines because such doctrines teach that such disobedient nonbelievers are wicked, sinners, and to be acknowledged as deserving of punishment, condemnation, and eternal torment. This means that the loving treatment we would have for such family members should not apply. We should just acknowledge them as disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation and not even treat them with dignity and respect.

My question is, how can you treat your secular family members with such love and compassion as though they were saved believers like one of you? Especially if these family members never change their secular worldview which is often the case. Let's pretend for a moment that you knew these secular family members were to never change their worldview and, thus, never be saved from condemnation, then doesn't this reveal to you how horrible, false, and cruel your religious worldview is providing that said religious view is one that promotes the doctrine of hell and condemnation towards kind and loving secular human beings?

In such a situation where a secular family member would never change his/her worldview, then you would have a god looking down upon these family members and thinking that they are disgusting sinners and worthy of condemnation. But you would be loving and compassionate towards these family members. I just see this as being contradictory to the nature of god because if you wish to be a follower of your god and be a model after him, then you would also have to view your secular family members as disgusting and worthy of condemnation.

My parent is staunchly Christian but we still love each other.

Yeah it probably takes mental gymnastics on her part, but you have to do that to be a Christian anyways.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

My parent is staunchly Christian but we still love each other.

Yeah it probably takes mental gymnastics on her part, but you have to do that to be a Christian anyways.

If god promotes acts of love and compassion towards secular human beings who would never change their worldview and would never serve a god they don't believe in, then why doesn't god also display acts of love and compassion towards these secular human beings on judgment day? See, this is a contradiction here.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

If god promotes acts of love and compassion towards secular human beings who would never change their worldview and would never serve a god they don't believe in, then why doesn't god also display acts of love and compassion towards these secular human beings on judgment day? See, this is a contradiction here.

Yeah I know.....

I didn't say that it isn't contradicting itself.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Yeah I know.....

I didn't say that it isn't contradicting itself.

That post of mine was directed towards Christians and other such religious believers in this whole doctrine of condemnation and hell. I never claimed that you said it wasn't a contradiction.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm not seeing the issue. All friendships and relationships are predicated on accepting a person for who they are regardless of the things about them we don't like or disagree with. There is always going to be something about a person we don't like. We call them a friend regardless. This applies as much to differences in religion as it does to differences in politics, music tastes, or anything else.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

I'm not seeing the issue. All friendships and relationships are predicated on accepting a person for who they are regardless of the things about them we don't like or disagree with. There is always going to be something about a person we don't like. We call them a friend regardless. This applies as much to differences in religion as it does to differences in politics, music tastes, or anything else.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Spiritual love is one of the few powerful things all healthy humans are capable of sharing. Family is the main source of love for most people. It's good to have people in life that you care about and that also care about you. Acceptance despite difference is a form of caring.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I'm not seeing the issue. All friendships and relationships are predicated on accepting a person for who they are regardless of the things about them we don't like or disagree with. There is always going to be something about a person we don't like. We call them a friend regardless. This applies as much to differences in religion as it does to differences in politics, music tastes, or anything else.

But surely god does not think the same way. If he is going to condemn these people on judgment day to eternal hell, then surely he does not have a kind and loving attitude towards these people. Like I said, this whole idea of having a loving and compassionate attitude towards secular family members completely goes against this harsh and cruel nature of god. It would make absolutely no sense at all for god to display a loving and kind attitude towards these secular people while, at the same time, condemning them to eternal hell. If the idea of religion is to be a model after the god we worship, then it would only make sense for the worshipers to also display the cruel and harsh attitude that god has towards these unchanging secular humanists.

 

[Quintessence]

But surely god does not think the same way. If he is going to condemn these people on judgment day to eternal hell, then surely he does not have a kind and loving attitude towards these people.

I thought we were talking about how the people who believe in such a god would conduct themselves? What the god does or doesn't think is irrelevant compared to how the human interprets it ands then choose to behave and treat others.

It would make absolutely no sense at all for god to display a loving and kind attitude towards these secular people while, at the same time, condemning them to eternal hell.

I'm not seeing the contradiction. For one, it is more than a little bit possible to say one thing and do another, especially for a trickster (and trickster gods are quite common in polytheistic traditions). For two, being loving and kind towards someone doesn't mean you still won't turn them into the police if they do something illegal. Nor does you turning them in mean you suddenly don't love them.

If the idea of religion is to be a model after the god we worship, then it would only make sense for the worshipers to also display the cruel and harsh attitude that god has towards these unchanging secular humanists.

If... IF that was the case, sure. However, it's been relatively rare I've seen theistic traditions express that the desire to model themselves after one of their gods. Isn't attempting to be godlike outright taboo in monotheistic traditions that have this sort of condemnatory thing going on? I thought their idea was to obey their god's laws, not to try and emulate it. But I defer to adherents of those traditions....

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I thought we were talking about how the people who believe in such a god would conduct themselves? What the god does or doesn't think is irrelevant compared to how the human interprets it ands then choose to behave and treat others.



I'm not seeing the contradiction. For one, it is more than a little bit possible to say one thing and do another, especially for a trickster (and trickster gods are quite common in polytheistic traditions). For two, being loving and kind towards someone doesn't mean you still won't turn them into the police if they do something illegal. Nor does you turning them in mean you suddenly don't love them.



If... IF that was the case, sure. However, it's been relatively rare I've seen theistic traditions express that the desire to model themselves after one of their gods. Isn't attempting to be godlike outright taboo in monotheistic traditions that have this sort of condemnatory thing going on? I thought their idea was to obey their god's laws, not to try and emulate it. But I defer to adherents of those traditions....

God thinks sinners who don't change (in this case, secular humanists with an unchanging secular worldview) are disgusting and reprehensible. Therefore, your analogy of turning someone into the police does not apply because God truly hates these secular humanists. He is not loving them and punishing them at the same time. The biblical God is not a trickster according to the bible either and many Christians believe God's word to be true. I have also heard in the Christian religion that we are supposed to be as holy as Jesus/God as we possibly can which obviously implies that we are supposed to be a model after God/Jesus.