Religious Laws

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hey, all you beautiful souls! In response to a poster who challenged me in an argument that in my acceptance of his religion as legitimate, as valid, the laws of his religion should apply to me, as a member of another religion, and not my own. The background? I'm a Bahá’í. I accept Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as being Religions from God. So, what's the problem, Dev?


Well....the problem is that this poster, who is a member of the first of these (Judaism) thinks their laws should still apply to the subsequent religions, mine included. I contend that if you're not a member of the religion, then that religion's laws do not apply to you. Especially, since each one has its own laws. It is utterly insane to suggest this. The poster, whose name I dare not to speak, seems to have a troubling time grasping this concept. Although, they know it to be true, as I've tried to explain to this person at least thirteen times, now. Help me out, if you would be so kind.

I'm gonna open this thread up to primarily all my Abrahamic brothers and sisters! Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bahá’ís! Of course, who could followers of other religions, too, due to the location of the thread.


Should the laws of one religion apply to the followers of the subsequent (or any other) religion(s)? Should one be expected to follow religious laws which are not meant for their religion? Yes or no, and why?

What does it mean to accept a religion as being "a Religion from God" if you don't accept its tenets?

 

[jonathan180iq]

What should be done when secular law contradicts religious law?

 

[Sundance]

So much for the Bhudda's place in your religion.
For nearly fifty years I've have heard Bahais explaining how their faith incorporates the teachings of the Bhudda, and you've just checked all that away.

The Buddha does has a place in our religion. Buddhism is, however, irrelevant to the topic of the thread, due to its existence as an issue primarily concerning ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS. Is Buddhism an Abrahamic religion? No.

But you've already explained that your God is the God of Abrahan, Moses and the Israelites, so you would need to focus on the 612 laws given by God to them.

Technically, Bahá’ís believe that it’s one and the same God of all people, all religions. Different religions just postulate various ideas and conceptions as to the Nature of the Divine.

Again, the 613 mitzvot apply to religious Jews, not my faith as a Bahá’í. We have our own laws that we are to follow.

And now you call us, who think that you should not cherery-pick the OT laws...... are utterly insane?
I can just see it now..... if enough people in the world would become Bahais and the Bahai Universal House of Justice take theocratic rule of the world, any who question you might dissappear into asylums?

Again, ob, the laws given in Torah, TO JEWS, do not apply to me as a BAHÁ’Í.....at all.

Secondly, the UHJ is the spiritual authority of OUR FAITH. The institution does not take the place of secular governments, to which we, as Bahá’ís, are to be unwaveringly obedient.

....and so you would have prefered to exclude a considerable % of members....... so you're an exclusive community?

No, we are not exclusive, but again, this is a topic that concerns primarily (but not exclusively) Abrahamic religions.

Ah ha!....... so you're wobbling there, by including 'or any other religions' you are clearly seeking to hide.
Bahais show clear prejudice against Females, Gays, Polysexuals, and the list of offences that would carry the death penalty has yet to be completed and published, I suspect......... showing that you cling to many OT laws and apply a prudish and unhealthy attitude towards sexual relationships.

Once again, BAHÁ’ÍS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS GIVEN IN THE TORAH. WE HAVE OUR OWN LAWS!

Secondly, concerning sexuality, while our Scriptures are clear that marriage is between one man and one woman, in the end, we don't judge or condemn LGBT individuals. Prejudice and discrimination against any group of people is explicitly prohibited. We believe in the fundamental equality of all people in the eyes of God. We don't force our laws down other people's throats. We leave other people alone. What anyone does in the privacy of their own lives, is nobody else's business. Period. I don't care about it. I'm not bothered with it. Additionally, we as Bahá’ís are exhorted to ‘be defenders of the oppressed, uplifters of the downtrodden’. So, because of my faith as a Bahá’í, I'm an Ally for LGBT Equality! You can believe that!

So you might as well pick up the 612 laws issued by God to the prophets mentioned in the OT. At least then you would be commanded over issues such as the poor, giving to the poor, relaxing financial pressures upon the poor, etc etc.....

So.... yes..... stop chery-picking and collect the lot!

The laws of my own religion are much more than sufficient for me, ob. Thank you, but no thank you.

 

[Sundance]

Why do Baha'i try to get other people to become Baha'i?

Actually, Kirran, we believe in teaching others about our faith, not forcing them to accept it. Such is forbidden in our Laws. In the end, whether someone is a Bahá’í or not makes no difference, but world peace is something that takes all of us, yea? Plus, we believe that other religions do constitute different paths to salvation. So, again, it doesn't matter.

 

[Sundance]

What should be done when secular law contradicts religious law?

As a citizen of your country, wherever that may be, you submit to secular law. Elementary, my dear Jonathan....

 

[Sundance]

What does it mean to accept a religion as being "a Religion from God" if you don't accept its tenets?

Again, Penguin, just because you may accept a religion as legitimate, doesn't mean you're going to follow their laws. They have their religions, I have mine. Point blank

 

[Kirran]

Actually, Kirran, we believe in teaching others about our faith, not forcing them to accept it. Such is forbidden in our Laws. In the end, whether someone is a Bahá’í or not makes no difference, but world peace is something that takes all of us, yea? Plus, we believe that other religions do constitute different paths to salvation. So, again, it doesn't matter.

I didn't say force, but the efforts put in to spreading the teachings of the Faith do strongly suggest that it is seen as desirable for people who are not Baha'i to become Baha'i, no?

 

[jonathan180iq]

As a citizen of your country, wherever that may be, you submit to secular law. Elementary, my dear Jonathan....

Of course it is.

So what does that say about religious law?
What does it say about "Religious Liberty" movements?

 

[Sundance]

Of course it is.

So what does that say about religious law?
What does it say about "Religious Liberty" movements?

It says that religious law is a private matter. Do the math, Jonathan.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again, Penguin, just because you may accept a religion as legitimate, doesn't mean you're going to follow their laws. They have their religions, I have mine. Point blank

Only some religious laws are directed toward a specific group of people. Others are directed to all of humanity.

And religions aren't just about laws. In many cases, their beliefs include factual claims. If, for instance, you think that Islam is a "religion of God"... well, Islam holds that Muhammad was the final prophet. This isn't presented as a rule for some specific people ("hey, you group over there: you aren't allowed to have any more prophets, but everyone else can"); it's presented as a factual claim. You either accept it (which is incompatible with Baha'i beliefs) or you don't (which is incompatible with holding up Islam as a "Religion of God").

 

[Sundance]

I didn't say force, but the efforts put in to spreading the teachings of the Faith do strongly suggest that it is seen as desirable for people who are not Baha'i to become Baha'i, no?

It's desirable, yes, but realistically, it won't happen. Some people will embrace the faith, some will leave, others will choose different paths. In the end, there's no negative consequence, no risk. Period.

 

[jeager106]

Should the laws of one religion apply to the followers of another?

The members here voted 15 to zero that those laws are not applicable to
others.
sooooooooooooooooooo.
Case closed.

 

[Sundance]

Only some religious laws are directed toward a specific group of people. Others are directed to all of humanity.

And religions aren't just about laws. In many cases, their beliefs include factual claims. If, for instance, you think that Islam is a "religion of God"... well, Islam holds that Muhammad was the final prophet. This isn't presented as a rule for some specific people ("hey, you group over there: you aren't allowed to have any more prophets, but everyone else can"); it's presented as a factual claim. You either accept it (which is incompatible with Baha'i beliefs) or you don't (which is incompatible with holding up Islam as a "Religion of God").

Again, just because you accept a religion as legitimate, doesn't mean you agree with everything it teaches. But hey, that's what makes different religions different, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again, just because you accept a religion as legitimate, doesn't mean you agree with everything it teaches.

What does it mean, then?

 

[Sundance]

Should the laws of one religion apply to the followers of another?

The members here voted 15 to zero that those laws are not applicable to
others.
sooooooooooooooooooo.
Case closed.

Hear that, @Tumah? and the voting ain't done yet....

 

[Sundance]

What does it mean, then?

That means, plain and simple, that we, as Bahá’ís are followers of a different religion than Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other. Period.

 

[jeager106]

I don't believe any members here want Sharia Law applied to our societies.
Do ya?
Inquiring minds don'cha'know?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That means, plain and simple, that we, as Bahá’ís are followers of a different religion than Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other. Period.

"Judaism is a legitimate religion of God" means "Baha'i are followers of a different religion than Judaism"?

This is a new definition of "legitimate" that I'm not familiar with.

 

[Sundance]

I don't believe any members here want Sharia Law applied to our societies.
Do ya?
Inquiring minds don'cha'know?

No, because Islamic Law is not applicable to non-Muslims. I am not a Muslim. Simple.

 

[Sundance]

"Judaism is a legitimate religion of God" means "Baha'i are followers of a different religion than Judaism"?

This is a new definition of "legitimate" that I'm not familiar with.

Hm, what's your definition of legitimate?