Religious Laws

[Tumah]

I understand. Although, HaShem (out of my respect for you, I will use this to refer to G-d when speaking to you from now on.) gave us the Laws in the days before any religion, you and I don't live in those days. There are other religions in this world.

There is no gain by calling G-d, HaShem. Both terms are doing the same thing.

There are other religions that have cropped up since those days. And from the perspective of Judaism, it is incumbent on everyone to reject these religions that were made by false prophets. So the fact that they exist, doesn't meant that they should be followed as G-d was not the one who created them. He already have Laws for non-Jews to fulfill. He doesn't change His mind.

I understand, Tumah, and I appreciate that. Again, I apologize for my quickness to condemn you, the Jewish Religion, or the Noahide Laws, purely out of my own pride and deliberate ignorance.

In all honesty, I feel that The Noahide Laws do serve as a beautiful testament to the mercy and righteousness of G-d, and that all people would do well to look to them as a standard for G-dly living. Though, I personally feel that other Abrahamic religions (because of the fundamental acceptance of the Divine Inspiration of The Torah) can play a important role in further establishing these Laws in the world, although these faiths are considered illegitimate from an Orthodox Jewish standpoint.

Maimonides had once said in the Mishneh Torah,

"All those words of Jesus of Nazareth and of this Ishmaelite [i.e., Muhammad] who arose after him are only to make straight the path for the messianic king and to prepare the whole world to serve the Lord together. As it is said: 'For then I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech so that all of them shall call on the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord' (Zephaniah 3:9)."

Maimonides' intent with the quote of that verse is to say that all the nations will drop their religions and follow the Noahide Laws. That is something we all believe.

It was Maimonides that I quoted (rather than the original Talmudic statement) regarding the prohibition of creating a religion. There is no one who was against the existence of other religions as clearly as Maimonides was.

Here's your quote in context:

Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Mashiach and was executed by the court was also alluded to in Daniel's prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: 'The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble.'

Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.

Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts. Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: 'I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.'
- Found here.
​

And just in case his position on Muhammad wasn't clear:

After him (Jesus) arose the Madman (Muhammad) who emulated his precursor since he paved the way for him. But he added the further objective of procuring rule and submission, and he invented his well known religion (Islam).
- Epistle to Yemen (the entire epistle is aimed at defending the Jews in Yemen from Islam).​

​

 

[Tumah]

As for the laws, man, what mudt be understood is again, the laws in the Torah (beside the Noahide Laws) are meant exclusively for Jews, and their Religion, not for non-Jews and their Religions. Each religion has a dinstict set of laws, some apply to all humankind (these are general laws) others apply specifically and exclusively to the followers of that religion. No one else.

And like I keep pointing out, a Jew who is bound by the Laws of the Torah, who apostatizes and becomes Baha'i would be transgressing this Law according to Judaism, but not according to Baha'i. That's one replacement I had in mind for Jews specifically with the inception of Baha'i.

Theology? Again, your Religion and mine are different, distinct. Yours is for you, mine is for me. I'm not you, you're not me.

Does it make sense to you, that since the Baha'i unity of religion concept that is part of your NWO is a Baha'i theology, it doesn't apply to me? Since I'm not Baha'i, G-d doesn't want me as a Jew to believe in the unity of religion, or ever take part in your NWO. G-d wants Baha'i to believe in that theology, but not Jews, Christians and Muslims.
How does that work out?

 

[Sundance]

And like I keep pointing out, a Jew who is bound by the Laws of the Torah, who apostatizes and becomes Baha'i would be transgressing this Law according to Judaism, but not according to Baha'i. That's one replacement I had in mind for Jews specifically with the inception of Baha'i.

A difference in understanding a situation does not constitute a replacement, for me, at least. Of course, such a situation is reflective of the individual. However, I can understand what it is you are saying. Heck, Tumah, I'm even tempted to say I agree with you. Here's my own understanding (of course, my understanding is in no way, shape, or form authoritative):

If you are a follower of Judaism (or really, any religion), then it is incumbent upon you to wholeheartedly follow your religion. It [the Religion, its Laws, its Scriptures....] is your guiding Light on the Journey to Your Lord. Do not turn away from It. Keep the fullness of the Laws given therein. Pray. Meditate. Study The Scriptures. For such absolute devotion to the Path which has been laid down for you by God is a very important mark of the True Lover [of God].

So, Tumah, I wouldn't generalize concerning how Bahá’ís feel, if I were you.

Does it make sense to you, that since the Baha'i unity of religion concept that is part of your NWO is a Baha'i theology, it doesn't apply to me? Since I'm not Baha'i, G-d doesn't want me as a Jew to believe in the unity of religion, or ever take part in your NWO. G-d wants Baha'i to believe in that theology, but not Jews, Christians and Muslims.
How does that work out?

My understanding of religion does not apply to you. I never said that it did apply to you. I tried to convince you, yes, but in the end, I recognize that my understanding of things is mine. Yours is yours. You are absolutely free to yours.

 

[Sundance]

There is no gain by calling G-d, HaShem. Both terms are doing the same thing.

Understood.

There are other religions that have cropped up since those days. And from the perspective of Judaism, it is incumbent on everyone to reject these religions that were made by false prophets. So the fact that they exist, doesn't meant that they should be followed as G-d was not the one who created them. He already have Laws for non-Jews to fulfill. He doesn't change His mind.

Since this is your understanding, Tumah, although I very much disagree, I accept this. I won't try to change your opinion. You're welcome to it. No issues.

Maimonides' intent with the quote of that verse is to say that all the nations will drop their religions and follow the Noahide Laws. That is something we all believe.

It was Maimonides that I quoted (rather than the original Talmudic statement) regarding the prohibition of creating a religion. There is no one who was against the existence of other religions as clearly as Maimonides was.

Here's your quote in context:

Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Mashiach and was executed by the court was also alluded to in Daniel's prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: 'The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble.'

Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.

Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts. Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: 'I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.'
- Found here.
​

And just in case his position on Muhammad wasn't clear:

After him (Jesus) arose the Madman (Muhammad) who emulated his precursor since he paved the way for him. But he added the further objective of procuring rule and submission, and he invented his well known religion (Islam).
- Epistle to Yemen (the entire epistle is aimed at defending the Jews in Yemen from Islam).​

​

Very informative, Tumah.