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Religious Nationalism in the US

Colt

Well-Known Member
That sort of thinking is one of the many problems created by the church so they can sell their "cure" of toxin. There is nothing inherently so flawed or wrong about us we inherently deserve damnation, nothing about ourselves so bad that we must be saved from ourself. This is just the Church talking, and they have a vested interest in repeating "all our righteousness is but filthy rags."
The institutional church has inherent flaws but it's what carried Paul's version of the Gospel of Jesus.

Church membership doesn't equal salvation, but if we leave a loyal relationship with God the Father then ultimately that's a rejection of salvation.

We are children of God who are supposed to be growing up to become adults of God. This first life is spiritual kindergarten.

The self or human ego wants to be its own savior, but it cannot be. We simply are not in the position to dictate the terms of salvation.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So you think that empowering young adults with information about their own bodies, their own identity and their own sexual health amounts to some sort of perverted grooming technique?
Seriously? It sounds like basic education to me. Maybe if someone had taught me when I was a lot younger that I had this power, I could have avoided some situations that put me in danger.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
but if we leave a loyal relationship with God the Father then ultimately that's a rejection of salvation.
Yup, that's what I did. And things have never been as bad for me as they were when I was still Christian.
The self or human ego wants to be its own savior, but it cannot be. We simply are not in the position to dictate the terms of salvation
Say Christians. Because, this whole salvation thing is another problem they created to sell a toxic cure.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Contempt prior to investigation guarantees a life of perpetual ignorance. You asked me to respond to a quoted sentence that you invented! Triggered is the right term to use when overly sensitive people whine about posts that they didn't even read.

I would suggest not responding to my posts if you can't be honest.
And I would suggest that you cram your condescending snark where the sun don't shine. :)
You best get back to watching Tucker Carlson now. Those culture wars talking points don't parrot themselves.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
The institutional church has inherent flaws but it's what carried Paul's version of the Gospel of Jesus.

Church membership doesn't equal salvation, but if we leave a loyal relationship with God the Father then ultimately that's a rejection of salvation.

We are children of God who are supposed to be growing up to become adults of God. This first life is spiritual kindergarten.

The self or human ego wants to be its own savior, but it cannot be. We simply are not in the position to dictate the terms of salvation.
Why did this God create this world where salvation is even necessary in the first place?

“Once we assume a creator and a plan, it makes humans objects of a cruel experiment whereby we are created to be sick and commanded to be well.”

― Christopher Hitchens
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I think it was because of the counting system. But, sorry, I don't see conservatives going against rights. On the contrary, Biden regime seems to be against basic rights like freedom of speech, right to own guns, right not to be murdered (=aborted), right to decide what is put to persons own body (vaccine mandates were against Nuremberg code)... ...very tyrannical the "liberals" are.
Biden "regime"? There's a huge clue that you are biased and not debating in good faith. Your beliefs are far right wing, so of course you "don't see" the efforts by republicans as a bad thing. The freedom of speech issue for the far right is about them getting away with defamation and slander, and spreading false information. And as far as guns and abortion, we all know what that means: more killing and less freedom for women.

This is very poor quality media. You can do better. But many media businesses make money by creating a product their audience wants, not objective reporting.

:D By what I see, American "liberals" are radically more "liberal" than "liberals" in Europe. And to me the "liberals" look more like insane than liberal.
Of course that is what you want to "see". You need to vilify liberals to make your far right wing beliefs seems justified. You don't argue why your beliefs are superior, you falsely vilify liberals.

Socialism is basically legalized theft, unjust and anti freedom. That is why I don't like it. But, I have never heard of US being called a socialist republic. And it has been very sad to look how the land of the free has descend to so low. Socialism is the cancer of nations and eventually destroys them, if it is let to go far enough.
See what I mean? None of this is true, and is what the far right does to try to make liberal policies seem evil, bad, theft, destructive, etc. No facts, no reasoning, no coherent argument, just disinformation. There's a reason Trump was rejected in 2020, and that's because the far right is toxic to freedom and social and economic stability.

I think best would be that people are free and independent, make own decisions of their own life.
Great, let the women get abortions if they need or want one according to the Roe decision, let trans people do what they feel is right for them, let children read books and be educated on what those books mean, let cities ban guns in an effort to manage gun violence, let gays get married so they can get the same benefits as straignt people, let everyone who is legally able to cast votes, and so on with many liberal ideas that expand freedom for marginalized groups.

I would accept small government, if it is to serve people and would be only involved in arranging some basic services equally for all people. These services would be:
1. Justice system and police, to handle only serious crimes like murders and theft.
This is a socialist system since taxes have to be collected to pay for the judges and police. That's pretty much what we have. Those are two braod categories. Even the crimes Trump is accused of, election fraud, is theft. Stealing an election. Isn't that what he claims Biden did?

2. Basic school, to teach how to read, write and count and how the society works.
School is socialism, as it pools sources of the community. I suggest teaching critical thinking, and basic science. We see too much ignorance on these two issues.

3. Basic healthcare, to heal people.
That's socialized medicine, welcome to the club.

4. Basic infra, commonly useful water, roads, sewer system.
More socialism, and paid for with taxes (theft by your calim above).

5. Government to check these are done in efficient and good way that serve all the people. And governments job should be to serve people, not to be served and the purpose in itself.
That's why there are laws against corruption. If a politician is elected and then arranges for his buddies to get infrastructure jobs and a kickback, that is bad. That is why there is an investigation into the 2 billion dollar deal the Trump family set up as Trump left office.

Reason why I think those would be acceptable is that they are useful for everyone. And it should be cheaper to arrange the for everyone collectively, if done correctly.
Funny how everything you listed is what liberals support. What you don;t mention is the far right wing's efforts to marginalize minority groups in the USA, like trans people. Look at the anti-woke nonsense DeSantis is pushing in Florida. Yeah, you support schooling, but do you support biased subjects being taught, and trying to wage a culture war against the newest generation?

No doubt you are aware that young people are vastly more liberal than your generation, and I wonder how you feel about that? The young are more tolerant and accepting, how about you, as a Christian? Do you see them as a threat?

Nowadays governments have become control freaks that want to micromanage everything. I think it is really bad.
Like DeSantis and his anti-woke agenda? Like this:

‘Positively dystopian’: Florida judge blocks DeSantis’ anti-woke law for colleges

So I take it you oppose his efforts and agenda?
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist

Colt

Well-Known Member
Yup, that's what I did. And things have never been as bad for me as they were when I was still Christian.

Say Christians. Because, this whole salvation thing is another problem they created to sell a toxic cure.
Salvation isn't unique to Christianity; they didn't invent it.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
And, as my link posted, this has not been healthy. It has been detrimental as for all the education that has been given, we have had more problems than solutions as compared to before where identity issues have proliferated whereas they were pretty much negligible before.

then you have the issue of what "informed" means to you and what it means to the parents. Very subjective if not detrimental as school begin to trump parental rights.

So, pretty much, your point is quite mute IMV

This link? Where does it state it is unhealthy?

Again, we are a diverse society and in a public school designed (in theory) to produce an informed citizenry to enable a healthy democracy, education should not be designed to fit the standards of a single cultural tradition. It should be as fact-based as possible and informed by the best data-driven research. That may not happen in every instance, and I am sure there are plenty of examples where teachers fail at this.

But that doesn't mean students are being groomed just because it's not a Christian-based perspective.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Why did this God create this world where salvation is even necessary in the first place?

“Once we assume a creator and a plan, it makes humans objects of a cruel experiment whereby we are created to be sick and commanded to be well.”

― Christopher Hitchens
Sharing is a part of the lovable nature of the Universal Father, the Father revealed in the life of Jesus of Nazareth. He created the world for us to grow up in. One of his celestial administrators went rouge and rebelled which lead to a rebellion and confusion among people on earth.

Salvation isn't from sickness it's from the rebellious meme of mankind. Its ultimately in our self-interest to surrender the animal self to the leading of the spirit of God within.

Hitches was an untreated alcoholic, a confused spoiled child who refused to grow up. His self destruction was at his own hand.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So you think that empowering young adults with information about their own bodies, their own identity and their own sexual health amounts to some sort of perverted grooming technique?
Seriously? It sounds like basic education to me. Maybe if someone had taught me when I was a lot younger that I had this power, I could have avoided some situations that put me in danger.
Seriously? Is that all you got out of what I have posted?

Are you saying an 8 year old actually knows their identity?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Sharing is a part of the lovable nature of the Universal Father, the Father revealed in the life of Jesus of Nazareth. He created the world for us to grow up in. One of his celestial administrators went rouge and rebelled which lead to a rebellion and confusion among people on earth.

Salvation isn't from sickness it's from the rebellious meme of mankind. Its ultimately in our self-interest to surrender the animal self to the leading of the spirit of God within.

Hitches was an untreated alcoholic, a confused spoiled child who refused to grow up. His self destruction was at his own hand.
Thanks for confirming the accuracy of the quote in your own judgy condescending way. :)
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Salvation isn't unique to Christianity; they didn't invent it.
Right, it was an idea the Hebrews invented, and then Christians took the idea and changed it. There's a reason Jews don't accept what Christians claim about Jesus, and the whole absurdly complex story of there being a virgin impregnation, birth of a perfect child, and then his execution for the sake of paying for the sins of mankind to God, a circumstance that God himself created. It all works better as a metaphor rather than taken literally.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So, Fox stereotypes an incident and that's supposedly the standard, which is what you're basically stating when you use the word "they"? Should we use the same process when talking about clergy?

Maybe next time not use a right-wing propaganda channel like Fox, OK?
Do you really think this is an isolated case when school boards all over the country are filled with upset parents?

This isn't a FOX issue but rather the little foxes that are spoiling the vine
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
This link? Where does it state it is unhealthy?

Again, we are a diverse society and in a public school designed (in theory) to produce an informed citizenry to enable a healthy democracy, education should not be designed to fit the standards of a single cultural tradition. It should be as fact-based as possible and informed by the best data-driven research. That may not happen in every instance, and I am sure there are plenty of examples where teachers fail at this.

But that doesn't mean students are being groomed just because it's not a Christian-based perspective.
Then you will have to explain why the school board meetings all over the country and filled with angry parents.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, and your lack of response to the content is interesting.

Yes, I think an 8 year old can begin know their identity. Kids aren't aliens or something. They're humans like everyone else.
You need classes on child rearing.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Then you will have to explain why the school board meetings all over the country and filled with angry parents.
They are ill-informed from watching Fox News?

Seriously. We have parents here in Canada at school board meetings that actually think kitty litter boxes are being put in children's classrooms for the kids who identify as cats, which of course is absolutely ridiculous and not happening. So there's that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You need classes on child rearing.
I've taken them, thanks. It's called a degree in psychology. :)


You really think an 8-year-old can't begin to figure out who they are, and to realize that they, and they alone, have power over their own bodies? What planet do you hail from, I have to ask?
 
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