Religious Nationalism in the US

[Orbit]

Here's something I wrote on the subject that comes to mind:

In 2021, 29 domestic terrorist attacks were directed against government, military, and police targets in the United States (Jones 2022). Politically right-leaning perpetrators were influenced by ideologies that included QAnon, the sovereign citizen movement, as well as ideologies of militia groups such as the 3 Percenters (Jones 2022). The most salient act of right-leaning extremists in recent history was the January 6th insurrection at the Capitol. While images, video, and media coverage showed a definite presence of white Christian nationalists at this event, relatively little research has been done on the role of that ideology in the attacks, and in the planning that led up to the attacks. Both mainstream and fringe social media outlets were extensively used in the planning and execution of the January 6th insurrection.

Social media is important because it frames issues for media consumers, and transmits, in this case, right wing extremist ideologies. This research aims to examine right wing ideological frames in general, and white Christian nationalist frames in particular. White Christian nationalists advocate for a white, Christian ethnostate with religious leadership and Biblical rather than secular law, and where non-Christians and minorities are not afforded full civil rights (Gorski and Perry et al 2022; Whitehead and Perry 2022). Christian nationalist views intersect with white identity, anti-Black sentiment, patriarchy, antisemitism, anti-Muslim sentiments, anti-immigrant attitudes, authoritarianism, and support for violence (Brookings Institute 2023). A survey by PRRI found that 10% of Americans agree with the tenets of Christian nationalists, and another 19% are sympathizers (PRRI 2023). There is a strong positive correlation between Christian nationalism and QAnon beliefs, particularly among white Americans (PRRI 2023).

This excerpt from the PRRI report on Christian nationalism shows the capacity for violence fueled by this extreme ideology:

“Adherents of Christian nationalism are nearly seven times as likely as rejecters to agree that “true patriots might have to resort to violence to save our country” (40% vs. 16%). Among supporters of such political violence, 12% said they have personally threatened to use or actually used a gun, knife, or other weapon on someone in the last few years. Among all Christian nationalism adherents, 7% say they have threatened to use or actually used a weapon on someone, compared to just 2% of Christian nationalism rejecters. (2023).”


Benford and Snow. 2000. . "Framing Processes and Social Movements: An Overview and

Assessment." Annual Review of Sociology 26 (1): 611-639.

Brookings Institute. 2023. “Understanding the Threat of White Christian Nationalism to

American Democracy Today.” Retrieved from

Understanding the threat of white Christian nationalism to American democracy today. February 9, 2023.

Gorski, Phillip S., Samuel L. Perry, and Jemar Tisby. 2022. The Flag and the Cross: White

Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy. Oxford: Oxford

University Press.

Jones, Seth G. 2022. “The Evolution of Domestic Terrorism.” Congressional Testimony.

Retrieved from https://www.csis.org/analysis/evolution-domestic-terrorism February 9,

2023.

PRRI 2023. “A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to

American Democracy and Culture.” Retrieved from Americans Say Elections More Negative than Past, Lack of Civility as Major Problem - PRRI

christian-nation-understanding-the-threat-of-christian-nationalism-to-american-

democracy-and-culture/ February 9, 2023.

Whitehead, Andrew L. and Samuel L. Perry. 2022. Taking America Back for God: Christian

Nationalism in the United States. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I suggest you actually read the founding fathers.

The Bible's first commandment is thou shalt have no other gods before me. Americas first Constitutional right is Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion as well as ensuring the state will not restrict the free practice thereof.
Those are entirely at odds and stand opposed to eachother, completely and fundamentally incompatible.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Bible's first commandment is thou shalt have no other gods before me. Americas first Constitutional right is Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion as well as ensuring the state will not restrict the free practice thereof.
Those are entirely at odds and stand opposed to eachother, completely and fundamentally incompatible.

No they aren't. One is a statement about God the other is a principle of not restricting freedom from anyone. The country isn't God obviously. We don't worship it. But it was founded on ideas from scripture. One of those ideas is that God is no respector of one person over another and we should not be either.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No they aren't. One is a statement about God the other is a principle of not restricting freedom from anyone. The country isn't God obviously. We don't worship it. But it was founded on ideas from scripture. One of those ideas is that God is no respector of one person over another and we should not be either.

Jehovah's one he makes it clear it is under the penalty of death. America's first would never kill an apostate.
See the difference? There's consequences for breaking Jehovah's 1. America's one gives you the freedom to ruin your kid's life in the name of religion.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

So?

Many of them came here to get away from religious tyranny, so now we are to have it here?

Says who?

If they were alive today, I imagine the early English Separatists from the Church of England would "say who."

The Puritan Pilgrims, in particular, came to America when King Charles I of England began persecuting Puritans. Many other Separatist groups fled to the Netherlands.

Many (if not most) of our Founding Fathers came from family that had been English Separatists. No doubt this was what influenced them against instituting a national religion such as existed in England.

Edited to add: And even if Christianity were to become the "national religion" of the United States of America, which form of Christianity would be the preferred form? "Christianity" is really an umbrella term for many groups that believe in Jesus (as far as I can tell, not being a Christian, myself), and not all of those branches of Christianity get along with each other.

 

[Viker]

Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

Absolutely not. I'm basically a born and sworn enemy. It is antithetical to basically every thing I hold dear.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Jehovah's one he makes it clear it is under the penalty of death. America's first would never kill an apostate.
See the difference? There's consequences for breaking Jehovah's 1. America's one gives you the freedom to ruin your kid's life in the name of religion.

We aren't under the old Mosaic laws and the founders understood that. The principle of loving your neighbor as yourself, from Jesus, can apply to a nation of people from all backgrounds.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We aren't under the old Mosaic laws and the founders understood that. The principle of loving your neighbor as yourself, from Jesus, can apply to a nation of people from all backgrounds.

And yet Christians are terrible at that and often want to strip people of rights as they bear false witness against those they hate.
And it's your opinion Christians aren't bound to it. Many believe they are as it is all of Jehovah's Word, he doesn't change, and because Jesus said he didn't come to do away with that or lessen any of it and warned against teaching he did. And ultimately it's only open to Christians.
America is for everyone.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

'More than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism, according to a new survey"

This sounds like a terrible terrible position for the US to currently be in. We are not and have never been a "Christian Nation".

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156...rt-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s


Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

Nationalism strikes me as idolatry.

 

[sun rise]

If they were alive today, I imagine the early English Separatists from the Church of England would "say who."

The Puritan Pilgrims, in particular, came to America when King Charles I of England began persecuting Puritans. Many other Separatist groups fled to the Netherlands.

Many (if not most) of our Founding Fathers came from family that had been English Separatists. No doubt this was what influenced them against instituting a national religion such as existed in England.

Edited to add: And even if Christianity were to become the "national religion" of the United States of America, which form of Christianity would be the preferred form? "Christianity" is really an umbrella term for many groups that believe in Jesus (as far as I can tell, not being a Christian, myself), and not all of those branches of Christianity get along with each other.

The early history of the US is interesting. The Puritans were typically Calvanists. They soon had schisms over doctrine with some being executed for being witches and a few for being Quakers. They were also bigoted against Catholics. They also did not tolerate women speaking their minds and for example banished Anne Hutchinson.

We also have Quakers who settled in Philidelphia and there were Catholics among the early settlers.

 

[sun rise]

And as far as the US Constitution and our system of government goes:

In 1988, the U.S. Senate paid tribute with a resolution3 that said, "The confederation of the original 13 colonies into one republic was influenced by the political system developed by the Iroquois Confederacy, as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the constitution itself."

 

[InChrist]

'More than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism, according to a new survey"

This sounds like a terrible terrible position for the US to currently be in. We are not and have never been a "Christian Nation".

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156...rt-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s


Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

I am not a proponent of religious, nor Christian nationalism because the Bible is not focused on the politics of the USA, rather the salvation of humans worldwide. I do think the terminology or understanding of “Christian Nationalism” has often been misconstrued, though…


“Broadly speaking, biblical Christianity neither implies nor includes “Christian nationalism.” Christians are obligated to individually submit to the will of God (Romans 12:1) and to support one another along those lines (John 15:12). In practice, this means advocating for government actions consistent with a Christian worldview (Proverbs 14:34). It includes defying government commands to commit sin (Acts 5:29). At the same time, a believer’s primary mission is not earthly, let alone political (John 18:36). In fact, the main descriptor for a Christian’s relationship to government is “submission” (Romans 13:1), not “domination.” Perspectives such as Christian Dominionism or Kingdom Now theology rightly invite accusations of “Christian nationalism,” though such perspectives are not reflected in Scripture.

Nationalism is a sense of loyalty and commitment to one’s country. It includes belief that the country ought to self-govern, pursue self-interests, and encourage shared cultural attributes. Such goals are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. Appreciation for one’s culture, language, traditions, music, history, or achievements is a fine thing. The same holds true for efforts to sustain those legacies. What’s inappropriate is an idolatrous, idealized vision of the country that presumes some clique within the nation is superior to all others. Therefore, “nationalism” is rarely used as a criticism without qualification: it is tied to factions such as “white nationalism” or “Christian nationalism.”

The core of those criticisms is not that it is wrong to be nationalist, in the blandest sense of the word. Rather, the implication is that it’s wrong to promote a narrow caricature of the “ideal” nation. Such details separate healthy love of country from the idolatry of factional nationalism. Any yet the word nationalist is what provides these criticisms with emotional punch. The term is something of a political boogeyman, evoking a sense of control, oppression, subjection, or dominance. Decrying a position as “[whatever] nationalism” implies an effort to force society to kowtow to [whatever] perspective.

Critics will often claim “Christian nationalism” when there is the slightest connection between a person’s faith and his or her political or social views. From that perspective, any desire to see laws reflecting godly morality or protecting Christian expressions of faith in public life is invalid nationalism and should be rejected. The same strategy is often used against pro-life or pro-Israel sentiments or support for biblical sexuality. At times, any politically conservative stance conflicting with progressive morality is waved away as “Christian nationalism.”

By that standard, any approach to politics could be belittled as invalid “nationalism.” It would be misleading and unfair to characterize all support for LGBTQ civil rights as “homosexual nationalism.” Those who believe in the separation of church and state are not “atheist nationalists.” The activists who opposed Jim Crow-era segregation were not “black nationalists.” And voters whose morality is defined by the Bible are not “Christian nationalists.” That’s not to say persons identified with sexual, religious, or ethnic groups can never be described as extremists; rather, the point is that advocating specific perspectives does not automatically imply radical nationalism.

Many people identify as “Christian.” With careful context, reasonable persons can identify as “nationalists.” Modern culture uses the phrase Christian nationalism to imply something well beyond a simple overlap of those terms, however. Attitudes that follow biblical principles can’t be fairly described using the popular definition of Christian nationalism; the attitudes that the label implies are not part of a biblical worldview.”


What is Christian nationalism? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Viker]

Many of our founders were Christian.

We, still, are not a Christian nation. Just as we are not a white nation. Just as we are not an English nation. We've grown since the late 1700s.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But most of the ones people can name were definitely not, like Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, probably Washington and very definitely Paine.

I think saying 'definitely' for Washington is an overstatement, and not how he would have described himself. Happy to be corrected if you have further info on that though.

 

[Viker]

By that standard, any approach to politics could be belittled as invalid “nationalism.” It would be misleading and unfair to characterize all support for LGBTQ civil rights as “homosexual nationalism.” Those who believe in the separation of church and state are not “atheist nationalists.” The activists who opposed Jim Crow-era segregation were not “black nationalists.” And voters whose morality is defined by the Bible are not “Christian nationalists.” That’s not to say persons identified with sexual, religious, or ethnic groups can never be described as extremists; rather, the point is that advocating specific perspectives does not automatically imply radical nationalism.

People that want to be included,who have factually and historically not been included, could only be considered American nationalists in that context.

 

[InChrist]

Nationalism strikes me as idolatry.

I agree.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If they were alive today, I imagine the early English Separatists from the Church of England would "say who."

The Puritan Pilgrims, in particular, came to America when King Charles I of England began persecuting Puritans. Many other Separatist groups fled to the Netherlands.

Many (if not most) of our Founding Fathers came from family that had been English Separatists. No doubt this was what influenced them against instituting a national religion such as existed in England.

Edited to add: And even if Christianity were to become the "national religion" of the United States of America, which form of Christianity would be the preferred form? "Christianity" is really an umbrella term for many groups that believe in Jesus (as far as I can tell, not being a Christian, myself), and not all of those branches of Christianity get along with each other.

I dunno...
I think it's somewhat trickier than that. Fleeing religious control or persecution does not at all mean that a group supports religious freedom. It just means they support religious freedom for them.

I'm not an expert on early American settlements, and am happy to be corrected on this (I do have some level of knowledge...not completely talking out of my hat), but I believe there were a variety of opinions amongst early settlers and settlements as to what the 'New World' should look like in terms of freedom versus morality, and what 'morality' meant.

 

[Kenny]

For instance.


"The Treaty of Tripoli announced clearly and succinctly to the world that “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” The document was initiated by George Washington, signed by John Adams, and ratified unanimously by the Senate,...".

America is not a Christian nation. The Founding Fathers said so

You need to learn more about that history and not just repeat what others say.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think saying 'definitely' for Washington is an overstatement, and not how he would have described himself. Happy to be corrected if you have further info on that though.

I did put a probably, as though he did regularly go to church he didn't actually write or speak much of his own religious views, no real hard evidence of anything for his personal views but we know his contemporaries didn't even know for sure, but he did use some Masonic language, which suggests if anything he was likely a Deist like other enlightened thinkers of his time but about as vocal about it as today's agnostics over it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You need to learn more about that history and not just repeat what others say.

Or do you? That signed draft was actually after a few revisions later, with prior versions not mention the Christian principles thing. It was eventually added thay hoping it would help get it through to them (Muslim nations and especially their privateers) that the US is not a formally Christian nation and as it wasn't established on principles it has no interest in that Christian vs Muslim crap.