Religious Nationalism in the US

[Truthseeker]

'More than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism, according to a new survey"

This sounds like a terrible terrible position for the US to currently be in. We are not and have never been a "Christian Nation".

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156...rt-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s


Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

Tim Whitaker, founder of The New Evangelicals, grew up in the church and now spends his life trying to detangle these kinds of views from the evangelical faith.

"We need to understand that the world of Christian nationalism largely rejects pluralism, which this study shows," he said. "Most Christian nationalists — either adherents or sympathizers — either agree or strongly agree with the notion that they should live in a country full of other Christians."

No choice? No independent investigation? No room for people of other religions?

 

[sun rise]

Love is the key, isn't it?

As noted not only in Christianity:

"Let the good in me connect with the good in others, until all the world is transformed through the compelling power of love.” Rebbe Nachman of Breslov

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “You will not enter Paradise until you have faith and you will not have faith until you love each other..."

"Love is dynamic in action and contagious in effect. Pure love is matchless in majesty; it has no parallel in power and there is no darkness it cannot dispel. It is the undying flame that has set life aglow. The lasting emancipation of man depends upon his love for God and upon God's love for one and all." Meher Baba

"Be pure when giving. Love grows when shared. Give and you shall receive." Hindu Gita

 

[Wildswanderer]

And it's your opinion Christians aren't bound to it.

No one follows the Mosaic laws entirely. It's actually impossible. The old system with the temple doesn't exist.

 

[Colt]

Called democracy. Of course Christian nationalists aren't a fan.

Democracy is tolerant, Leftist aren't tolerant. They have their own Godless agenda that they want to impress upon society. Its foolish to assume that the absence of religious influence equates to the absence of an agenda.

 

[Revoltingest]

Love is the key, isn't it?

I prefer the lack of hatred.

 

[Kenny]

That's exactly what it means if those are how all the laws are based, as you say. It is inherently Christian. It means you just think Christian (at least societally). That's how Cultures works.

And imposing things like anti-abortion into law. It's inherently Christian law, in the guise of "pro-life".

Edit: but that's much of a separate argument.

I disagree. Since every law imposes a lifestyle, what you are offering here is, "just create laws that I agree with but don't limit me with what I don't agree with.

Christian law is basically what this country was based on... it is what gave you freedom to do what you want to do.

 

[Valjean]

Wrong. They were almost all biblical Christians... Anyone who has read their writings at any length knows this.

No, that's not true. Read them again, and don't mistake biblical references as literary convention for religiosity.
The founding fathers were quite aware of the chaos caused by the Religious Wars in Europe. They did not want that repeated here.

 

[Augustus]

The Puritan Pilgrims, in particular, came to America when King Charles I of England began persecuting Puritans. Many other Separatist groups fled to the Netherlands.

IIRC, The pilgrims went to Holland to avoid persecution, they later went to America because it offered more opportunities and they were losing too many people to the “corruption” of the cities.

 

[Valjean]

Nobody said it was founded on religion. It was founded on Christian principles.

Inasmuch as they corresponded to Enlightenment principles.....

 

[Valjean]

I support Nationalism definitely.

I think this is a Christian based nation, the history reflects that, but definitely not a Christian nation.

Nationalism, even patriotism, violates Christian principles of brotherhood and universalism.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galations 3:28

Nationalism has a disturbing history of generating wars and imperialism. It's hubris. It's Fascism lite.

 

[Kenny]

I prefer the lack of hatred.

I think "love" is pro-active where as "lack of hatred" can be stagnant. There could be lack of hatred towards a person in need and just pass them by. Love would compel you to do something.

 

[Kenny]

As noted not only in Christianity:

"Let the good in me connect with the good in others, until all the world is transformed through the compelling power of love.” Rebbe Nachman of Breslov

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “You will not enter Paradise until you have faith and you will not have faith until you love each other..."

"Love is dynamic in action and contagious in effect. Pure love is matchless in majesty; it has no parallel in power and there is no darkness it cannot dispel. It is the undying flame that has set life aglow. The lasting emancipation of man depends upon his love for God and upon God's love for one and all." Meher Baba

"Be pure when giving. Love grows when shared. Give and you shall receive." Hindu Gita

Yes... it is universal or at the least, in most religions.

 

[Valjean]

IIRC, The pilgrims went to Holland to avoid persecution, they later went to America because it offered more opportunities and they were losing too many people to the “corruption” of the cities.

No. They came to America to establish a Calvinist Republic on the lines of today's Islamic Republics.
They were OK in England, They were fine in Holland. They were just bothered by all the heathens living apparently successful lives, all around them. It was galling.

Like today's evangelicals, they felt put upon; that there was a "war on Calvinism," So they emigrated to found an intolerant, religious tyranny.

This, the founding fathers wished to avoid.

 

[Polymath257]

Wrong. We certainly were in principle, not always in practice.

Wrong. We were always secular in principle. And those that wrote the basic documents were mostly deist. Thomas Paine was an atheist.

 

[Kenny]

No. They came to America to establish a Calvinist Republic on the lines of today's Islamic Republics.
They were OK in England, They were fine in Holland. They were just bothered by all the heathens living apparently successful lives, all around them. It was galling.

Like today's evangelicals, they felt put upon; that there was a "war on Calvinism," So they emigrated to found an intolerant, religious tyranny.

This, the founding fathers wished to avoid.

You would have to support that revisionist history statement.

 

[Polymath257]

Nobody said it was founded on religion. It was founded on Christian principles.

No, it was founded on ethical principles. Those mostly ignored Christianity and pointed to older Greek and Roman models.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think "love" is pro-active where as "lack of hatred" can be stagnant. There could be lack of hatred towards a person in need and just pass them by. Love would compel you to do something.

It isn't an either or thingie.
The existence of love allows for hatred.
I'll wager that when we see people in the
news doing evil things out of rage, those
same people love their own friends & family.

 

[Kenny]

It isn't an either or thingie.
The existence of love allows for hatred.
I'll wager that when we see people in the
news doing evil things out of rage, those
same people love their own friends & family.

Let me give a true life example. A Puerto Rican evangelist goes to her dead daughter's home to see her blood splattered all over the apartment.

He goes to the jail and preaches salvation to the husband, the murderer.

What would a person who simply has no hate do?

 

[Revoltingest]

Let me give a true life example. A Puerto Rican evangelist goes to her dead daughter's home to see her blood splattered all over the apartment.

He goes to the jail and preaches salvation to the husband, the murderer.

What would a person who simply has no hate do?

That would be up to the person.
But I've seen loving Christians in our government
seek hate fueled vengeance against imagined foes,
resulting in lengthy war.
Tis essential to lose the hatred. Love is optional.

I know this is a silly argument we have going on.
But it entertains lesser posters.

 

[Kenny]

That would be up to the person.
But I've seen loving Christians in our government
seek hate fueled vengeance against imagined foes,
resulting in lengthy way.
Tis essential to lose the hatred. Love is optional.

I know this is a silly argument we have going on.
But it entertains lesser posters.

LOL Thanks for the last thought expressed.

Yes... but those "loving" Christians aren't acting "out of love".