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Religious Nationalism in the US

W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I have. And you -- if you have also read them -- clearly did not read them with comprehension.

Many of the founding fathers—Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe—were deists, which holds human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems. Deists believe in a supreme being who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws—and after creation, is absent from the world. This belief in reason over dogma helped guide the founders toward a system of government that respected faiths like Christianity, while purposely isolating both from encroaching on one another so as not to dilute the overall purpose and objectives of either.

James Madison, for instance, was vigorously opposed to religious intrusions into civil affairs. In 1785, when the Commonwealth of Virginia was considering passage of a bill “establishing a provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion,” Madison wrote his “Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments,” in which he presented 15 reasons why government should not become involved in the support of any religion.

In his first term as president, Thomas Jefferson declared his firm belief in the separation of church and state in a letter to the Danbury, Conn. Baptists. He said: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should `make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

The Treaty of Tripoli was already discussed above.

Finally, and most obviously, if the founding fathers intended to include Jesus, the Bible, or other particular aspects of the Christian faith in the founding of our nation, they would have expressly done so. However, the ONLY two references to religion that are in the Constitution contain exclusionary language. The First Amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . .” and in Article VI, Section III, “… no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

The Founding Fathers’ Religious Wisdom.
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Totally missed the point.
They were Christians, quoting scripture from the Christian Bible.
They had Christian principles which they based their ideas for government on.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Kenny said:
Wrong, most were Christian.
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Franklin. Attended Unitarian churches when he was in England , including one 400 yards from my house where I lived in Tenterden Kent.
At the founding of the USA , there was a strong surge away from the traditional Christian churches towards deism, Unitarianism and other less formal beliefs such as humanism.. This was most apparent at the top of the social scale and the well educated.
This was equally true in the UK and parts of Europe.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Wildswanderer said:
Totally missed the point.
They were Christians, quoting scripture from the Christian Bible.
They had Christian principles which they based their ideas for government on.
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And you missed the point. That a nation has Christians in it doesn't make it a Christian nation, anymore than a nation of mostly Asians makes it an Asian nation. It is an Asian nation because it is in Asia -- and would remain so if all the inhabitants suddenly morphed into Igbo people.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
Franklin. Attended Unitarian churches when he was in England , including one 400 yards from my house where I lived in Tenterden Kent.
At the founding of the USA , there was a strong surge away from the traditional Christian churches towards deism, Unitarianism and other less formal beliefs such as humanism.. This was most apparent at the top of the social scale and the well educated.
This was equally true in the UK and parts of Europe.
Click to expand...
Very common but wrong perspective. You take the exception and make it general.

This might help:
Were the Founders Religious? | PragerU
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
Anything to deny the obvious. They aren't quoting the Koran or the Buddha.
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When the biographies of the founders explain their personal beliefs and it does not support your account I do not think that I am the one denying the obvious.

And no, they are quoting a source that those who they are trying to communicate to would understand. There were a lot of Christian, and I will grant you that they were the clear majority, citizens. The founders were trying to communicate with them. That does not change the beliefs of the founders.
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Twilight Hue said:
I support Nationalism definitely.
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I support patriotism but not nationalism. Nationalism appears to be the worship of symbols related to one's national identity, and this too easily leads to facism.

Patriotism appears to me to be more of a support for the ideals behind one's national identity, with the idea that change is inevitable and the nation can be improved.
 
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