Religious Politics - Christian antagonists

[GloriaPatri]

Very few do and none of them are on par with what is available to heterosexual couples.

Yes, we already established that.

Anyway, this argument is going in circles. But, it's been a fun and enlightening debate.

 

[Green Gaia]

Thank you. Have a good night.

 

[dawny0826]

Silent condoning is a big problem I have with Christianity.

Then, shouldn't your problem be with silent individuals as opposed to Christianity?

You assume that the Christian who doesn't outwardly voice their support is AGAINST equal rights for GBLTs when this isn't always the case.

Are you taking into consideration that many Christians keep silent because they feel that to speak out would contradict their religious beliefs?

You may not like it but that's often times the truth. I don't have any respect for a so called Christian that goes out of their way to exploit homosexuality and to speak out AGAINST civil rights for GBLTs but I can't exactly fault those who are in support but don't speak out.

You're going to get different opinions and interpretations from people when it comes to the biblical standpoint on homosexuality and marriage.

I'm a bisexual female. Had my husband been a woman...I'd probably be in a very different station in my life right now. I married a man and I gave my life to Christ after we were married.

It does hurt me to see beautiful people hurting. And I'm faced with a difficult choice every time I vote. The democrat is normally the individual who supports GBLTs and unfortunately, it's the democrat that I normally can't cast my vote upon because everything else...I don't agree with.

You may not like it but I do believe that marriage was intended to be an institution between a man and a woman. That doesn't mean that I don't WANT for GBLTs to be able to marry. I want that very much for them but to stand up and support something that I know in my heart is biblically wrong is a complete conflict of interest between my faith and allegiance to God which takes precedence over what I WANT.

You can interpret this how you'd like. From a deeply personal perspective it hurts me very much to see others hurt. I would TOTALLY vote AND help support the campaign of a politician who was in support of GBLT rights but this politician, to gain my vote would also have to be anti-abortion, anti tax increase, pro military and anti gun control. I have yet to find such a candidate to vote for.

I love people. In my personal life, I am constantly reiterating to the older, dreadfully conservative members of my family about the importance of NOT supporting individuals like Pat Robertson because his message is often one of hate. I don't believe in the exploitation and verbal "bashing" of individuals who fit under any category that Christians could deem "unChristian". That's NOT who I am as an individual.

But, many people will label me as being intolerant because of my silence without even Knowing what's upon my heart.

You'd be more than welcome at my dinner table as would Amy and Pah and so many other beautiful people. If you invited me to a political function and asked me to attend with you as a friend, I might even consider going because I really do care.

I don't see it as an issue of fair or unfair but rather that as Christians, who live amoung Christians you are not afforded the luxury of a neutral position on human rights issues that your religon pursues at large.

You assume that by not speaking out...the Christian is taking a "neutral" stance when in reality...they've very much chosen a side according to their faith. In Christianity, there is no such thing as neutrality. There is either "right" or "wrong" according to the Word.

By being a member of team Jesus you are in the game irrgardless if you want to be or not, and if you are being silent when an issue comes across you are strongly against you are condoning it by not contesting it.

I don't disagree but I urge you to try to understand WHY people are not contesting.

 

[dawny0826]

Let me ask you then, Dawny. What can I do to make people care enough to do something about others are being hurt? I mean, if people just don't care that we are being hurt in the name of religious zeal, then I wish they would just say so. At least then I would know where they stood. What I don't understand is those who say, "oh that's horrible, but it's not my problem," and therefore don't do anyting about it. Really, I want to know what I need to do to make them care enough to stop the hurt of others in the name of some people's religious beliefs. Please tell me.

I don't really have an answer, Amy. And I wish I did. I struggle with this issue more than any other political issue because I do care and I do love people.

But it's as I explained to Rob...in Christianity, there is right and there is wrong. There is no inbetween. There is no middle ground. A Christian has to question everything that they do...is this of Christ or is this not.

If I know that Christ wouldn't approve of something and I can't find justifications for my actions...I can't do it. And I don't think there's anything that I could say that would make a person understand that my inaction really doesn't equate to not caring and not sympathizing. That's not what's in my heart.

 

[Green Gaia]

Dawny, do you know what the second part of the VA amendment is going to do to GBLT families?

The second paragraph would:

Void contracts and/or documents created to define, regulate or otherwise affect any relationship of two unmarried individuals that can be described as similar to marriage. (Actual text: "This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage.) Note that this portion of the amendment affects both same-sex and different-sex couples.


Prohibit the state from establishing any form of civil union. (Actual Text: “Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage.)


I know you believe that marriage is only for one man, and one woman, (although I don't understand people's need to force that on everyone else), even if this amendment is defeated, "one man, one woman" is written elsewhere in Virginia law 3 TIMES. Defeating this horrible amendment will not change that. Same gender couples will still be discriminated against, but will get to keep their legal documents. Please vote NO on this amendment and help me educate people about what this amendment is really about, (hint, it's NOT about "one man, one woman").

Something else I don't understand, why the need to enshrine discrimination in our Bill of Rights? Whose rights are being protected by discriminating and hurting gay and lesbian couples? Allowing one group equal legal rights WILL NOT decrease rights of others. So why is this being done to hurt an entire group of people? Why are we so hated?

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny, do you know what the second part of the VA amendment is going to do to GBLT families?

The second paragraph would:

Void contracts and/or documents created to define, regulate or otherwise affect any relationship of two unmarried individuals that can be described as similar to marriage. (Actual text: "This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage.) Note that this portion of the amendment affects both same-sex and different-sex couples.


Prohibit the state from establishing any form of civil union. (Actual Text: “Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage.)


I know you believe that marriage is only for one man, and one woman, (although I don't understand people's need to force that on everyone else), even if this amendment is defeated, "one man, one woman" is written elsewhere in Virginia law 3 TIMES. Defeating this horrible amendment will not change that. Same gender couples will still be discriminated against, but will get to keep their legal documents. Please vote NO on this amendment and help me educate people about what this amendment is really about, (hint, it's NOT about "one man, one woman").

Something else I don't understand, why the need to enshrine discrimination in our Bill of Rights? Whose rights are being protected by discriminating and hurting gay and lesbian couples? Allowing one group equal legal rights WILL NOT decrease rights of others. So why is this being done to hurt an entire group of people? Why are we so hated?

Amy, I didn't realize that this is what this amendment included. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

You have my vote of "NO".

 

[Pah]

Amy, I didn't realize that this is what this amendment included. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

You have my vote of "NO".

Would you them please talk to ten other Christians about what you now understand. In fact, talk to your church congregation if you would. My mother-in-law is doing just that - talking to her her friends by subtly bring up the subject in all the organizations she attends.

 

[dawny0826]

Would you them please talk to ten other Christians about what you now understand. In fact, talk to your church congregation if you would. My mother-in-law is doing just that - talking to her her friends by subtly bring up the subject in all the organizations she attends.

I can certainly do my best, Pah. I know of several people I can talk to right away who can help me get this message out.

 

[gnostic]

You can look to the many military Junta's that used to rule South America as examples of Christian Nationalist governments.

But you forget that South America is largely Christian, Catholics to be more precise. The US have more diverse culture and religion, but there are Christians who wish to restrict other citizens' rights. You can't say you believe in equal rights, if you go around denying rights to the same citizens, but who don't pray in the same church as you do, or not rich enough for you, or have the same sexual preference as you do, etc, etc, etc.

Like the right to get married? I don't recall marriage being a constitutional right. No one has taken any of your rights away. While I agree that gays should be afforded the same recognition under the law - it's a bit of a stretch to call it a right.

In what way are you threatened by this? In what way does it even affect your life? In what way is protecting their rights, harming your right?

Hey, I am not gay, and I don't like seeing two gay people kissing one another in public, but is it really any of my business if they do so? Or yours?

 

[gnostic]

Agreed. Stalin was an atheist and I never ask an atheist to "assume some responsiblity for the tresspasses made against humanity" in atheism's name.

Stalin didn't trespass against humanity in the name of atheism. He did so in the name of Communism, and in keeping himself in power.

 

[Green Gaia]

Amy, I didn't realize that this is what this amendment included. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

You have my vote of "NO".

Thank you, Dawny! :hug:

 

[Green Gaia]

I forgot to add Dawny, if you need any information that would help you explain the amendment I would be more than happy to help you out.

 

[dawny0826]

I forgot to add Dawny, if you need any information that would help you explain the amendment I would be more than happy to help you out.

You know what, I'd appreciate that. Thanks.