Religious rituals

[Zwing]

In fact, if you consider the etymology of the word religion, it points more directly to the experience and performance of ritual than to any other aspect of religious observance. There are three verbs of similar form (*ligo/*lego) in the history of Latin, and two of them are confused in discerning the etymology of the Latin noun religio. The etymology commonly assumed within Christian circles, wherein they assume the Classical Latin verb ligo, “to bind”, as being a constituent of Latin religio (religion), is considered incorrect by linguists. The deverbal noun religio was not derived within Latin at all, but within its predecessor language Proto-Italic, which had an additional verb *lego with the meaning “to care for”, which verb did not descend from PI into Early Latin and Classical Latin. The correct etymology of Latin religio, then, is as follows:

Latin religio < Proto-Italic *religio < *re- (“again”) + *lego (“I care about”, “I demonstrate care for”) + *-io (suffix creating deverbal result nouns).

religio - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:proto-Italic/legō#Proto-Italic:_care

The resulting noun was *religio rather than *relegio due to the effect of so-called “Latin Sound Laws”, which were a set of detivational rules determined to the preservation of euphony in the language. So, “religion” is, technically, not something that one is “bound to”, but rather is that thing which one demonstrates care for repeatedly, which meaning suggests ritualism by definition. This true etymology is reflected in the primary meaning of the word religio in Classical Latin, which was “exactness” or “scrupulousness” (particularly as applied to protocol in the Roman Senate or ritual in the Temple). There can be no doubt, a concern for proper ritual, more so than correct theology, philosophy, or doctrine, or even community, lies at the very heart of religion.

 

[pearl]

Expect @metis would be best placed to comment on that.

Yes, but here's a few to begin with.
The standing during the gospels is, in Jewish liturgy, the standing for the Torah. The prayers of the offertory are the prayers of the Jewish Benediction before a meal. The Sanctus is a direct quote from the Jewish prayer the Quedushah, while the ending of the maranatha when we say “Come Lord Jesus” is there in the invocation for the coming of the Messiah in the Jewish Shemoneh Esreh said daily.
The beating of the breast at the Kyries repeats the Jewish beating of the breast as a sign of mourning or of repentance.
The octave after Christmas or Easter, is the week kept by Jews after every major feast. The beni-toi with its holy water, sign of baptism and once placed at the entrance of Catholic homes, takes the place of the Shema Israel encased in the wall before the entry into Jewish homes. And the readings of the Easter Vigil are the Passover readings Jesus would have known. Burning of incense.

 

[exchemist]

Yes, but here's a few to begin with.
The standing during the gospels is, in Jewish liturgy, the standing for the Torah. The prayers of the offertory are the prayers of the Jewish Benediction before a meal. The Sanctus is a direct quote from the Jewish prayer the Quedushah, while the ending of the maranatha when we say “Come Lord Jesus” is there in the invocation for the coming of the Messiah in the Jewish Shemoneh Esreh said daily.
The beating of the breast at the Kyries repeats the Jewish beating of the breast as a sign of mourning or of repentance.
The octave after Christmas or Easter, is the week kept by Jews after every major feast. The beni-toi with its holy water, sign of baptism and once placed at the entrance of Catholic homes, takes the place of the Shema Israel encased in the wall before the entry into Jewish homes. And the readings of the Easter Vigil are the Passover readings Jesus would have known. Burning of incense.

Beni-toi? What’s that. Benetier or benitier I know from French. Is that the same thing?

 

[Truthseeker]

In fact, if you consider the etymology of the word religion, it points more directly to the experience and performance of ritual than to any other aspect of religious practice. There are three verbs of similar form (*ligo/*lego) in the history of Latin, and two of them are confused in discerning the etymology of the Latin noun religio. The etymology commonly assumed within Christian circles, wherein they assume the Classical Latin verb ligo, “to bind”, as being a constituent of Latin religio (religion), is considered incorrect by linguists. The deverbal noun religio was not derived within Latin at all, but within its predecessor language Proto-Italic, which had an additional verb *lego with the meaning “to care for”, which verb did not descend from PI into Early Latin and Classical Latin. The correct etymology of Latin religio, then, is as follows:

Latin religio < Proto-Italic *religio < *re- (“again”) + *lego (“I care about”, “I demonstrate care for”) + *-io (suffix creating deverbal result nouns).

Oh, I thought it did mean "to bind". maybe Baha'i shouldn't be called a religion by that definition you have above, though we do have a few rituals. The emphasis in Baha'i is definitely not on rituals.

 

[Zwing]

maybe Baha'i shouldn't be called a religion by that definition you have above,

Well, not so fast. That is only the etymological sense of the word that I cite. Words pick up different related meanings through time. Yes, Baha’i is a religion, and they do have rituals. I have been to their Nowruz celebrations, which I would classify as a ritual.

 

[Truthseeker]

Well, not so fast. That is only the etymological sense of the word that I cite. Words pick up different related meanings through time. Yes, Baha’i is a religion, and they do have rituals. I have been to their Nowruz celebrations, which I would classify as a ritual.

It wouldn't be classified as a ritual as I understand the word ritual. If you see Naw-Ruz as a ritual because of how you define a ritual is different from mine, fine. It's not worth arguing about, and this is not a debate forum. We do fast, which is a ritual, we do ablutions before our obligatory prayer. It's hard to think of what rituals we do have. If you see obligatory prayers themselves as rituals, that's up to what your understand of what a ritual is. What I was essentially saying above is that rituals are not that important to us.

 

[Zwing]

What I was essentially saying above is that rituals are not that important to us.

Sure, some religions are less ritualistic than others. I might consider the rule that Baha’i “temples” be nine-sided to be a ritualistic custom.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, of course, you speak the truth, but I was thinking more of “meaning” in the sense of “metaphysical significance”.

I believe in physics rather than on metaphysics.

 

[Kathryn]

As a practicing Catholic, I have quite a few. I find great comfort in them.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, but here's a few to begin with.
The standing during the gospels is, in Jewish liturgy, the standing for the Torah. The prayers of the offertory are the prayers of the Jewish Benediction before a meal. The Sanctus is a direct quote from the Jewish prayer the Quedushah, while the ending of the maranatha when we say “Come Lord Jesus” is there in the invocation for the coming of the Messiah in the Jewish Shemoneh Esreh said daily.
The beating of the breast at the Kyries repeats the Jewish beating of the breast as a sign of mourning or of repentance.
The octave after Christmas or Easter, is the week kept by Jews after every major feast. The beni-toi with its holy water, sign of baptism and once placed at the entrance of Catholic homes, takes the place of the Shema Israel encased in the wall before the entry into Jewish homes. And the readings of the Easter Vigil are the Passover readings Jesus would have known. Burning of incense.

Also Lent, fish on Fridays. marking the house doors, Pentecost, the wise men, all the feast days, etc. etc. etc. I mean, many of them are not limited to Catholicism but they are part of Catholicism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, not so fast. That is only the etymological sense of the word that I cite. Words pick up different related meanings through time. Yes, Baha’i is a religion, and they do have rituals. I have been to their Nowruz celebrations, which I would classify as a ritual.

Bahais have Allah and a mirror image of Allah, in the person of their 'manifestation', Bahaollah, a 19th Century uneducated Iranian preacher. And a book to boot, Kitab-i-Aqdas. They are very much a religion.

 

[Zwing]

As a practicing Catholic, I have quite a few. I find great comfort in them.

Yeah, the Mass (I prefer the “Low Mass”, finding the music to be distracting, and Low Mass is much quicker..25 minutes, in and out) is a beautiful ritual. I can’t say the creed of take communion, yet find the ritual itself, and the familiarity thereof, both cathartic and re-orienting. It represents an occasional “quick fix” for me.

 

[pearl]

Yeah, the Mass (I prefer the “Low Mass”, finding the music to be distracting, and Low Mass is much quicker..25 minutes

There were many who felt the same way, its a Jesus and me thing, one would receive the host and walk out.

 

[Kathryn]

I personally love all the bells and whistles and there are plenty of them! LOL But I nearly always go to the mass at the Cathedral. I have tried other locations but I call them Hippie Churches because to me the music sounds like that and I don't much care for it. Give me a choir, an organ, incense, all that stuff.

 

[metis]

Expect @metis would be best placed to comment on that.

Thanks.

Christianity was based on an attempt to reform Judaism through simplifying Jewish Law [613 Commandments] down to Two Commandments: love of God and love of humankind. There had already been strides in that direction with some of the Pharisees, especially with those within the School of Hillel.

I don't know if you wanted more, so if that's the case, just ask.

Hope you had a great weekend.

 

[exchemist]

Thanks.

Christianity was based on an attempt to reform Judaism through simplifying Jewish Law [613 Commandments] down to Two Commandments: love of God and love of humankind. There had already been strides in that direction with some of the Pharisees, especially with those within the School of Hillel.

I don't know if you wanted more, so if that's the case, just ask.

Hope you had a great weekend.

OK that's theology rather than ritual but still interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[metis]

OK that's theology rather than ritual but still interesting. I didn't know that.

So, sorry I misinterpreted the question.

"Baptism" is a carryover of the Jewish mikvah, namely baths that one would immerse themselves in for reason of ritual purity.

"Eucharist" is a carryover of Pesach, the Passover.

"Confirmation" would be an equivalent of the bar mitzvot.

"Anointing of the sick" would be equivalent of praying for the sick and those in need is done at Shabbat services, although the latter doesn't use the water ritual that simulates baptism.

"Matrimony" was carried over from a similar commitment in Judiasm.

"Penance" is not found per se within Judaism, but asking a rabbi for help is customary.

"Holy Orders" involves prayers and blessings that are at least somewhat similar to those used when rabbis are ordained.

Is this more along the line of what you were looking for? Again, ask if you need more, but also realize that I certainly don't have all, nor even most, of the answers by any stretch of the imagination!

 

[Zwing]

There were many who felt the same way, its a Jesus and me thing, one would receive the host and walk out.

A little different for me, as I have become atheistic, and no longer believe the Jesus or God doctrines. What I am saying is that the ritual of the Mass itself has value apart from any belief system.

I have tried other locations but I call them Hippie Churches because to me the music sounds like that and I don't much care for it.

If you are speaking about the “folk masses” that became popular after Vatican 2, then I agree wholeheartedly. In those, the music is simply anticlimactic. Personally, when there is music, I prefer all the antiphonae and such in Latin. In fact, even though Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation bugs the heck out of me in its deviation from proper Classical speech, I prefer the Mass in Latin, but then, I have studied Latin and can follow along.

 

[Orbit]

I have a secular ritual, which is the "cheese and cracker snack" which I find quite restorative. It involves sparkling wine, cheese, crackers, and sometimes charcuterie. Usually had on a weekday after work.

 

[metis]

If you are speaking about the “folk masses” that became popular after Vatican 2, then I agree wholeheartedly. In those, the music is simply anticlimactic.

Generally speaking, I really like the folk masses, but that's probably in large part that I never outgrew my hippie orientation.