Rep. Becca Ballint (D-VT) on Trump v Biden

[tytlyf]

There was disagreement about which of
these 2 evils was worse. The point is that
then liberals fumed that voting for the
lesser evil was to "support" evil.
But now to support Genocide Joe is not to
support all the terrible things he stands for.
Double standard.

The Bernie supporters were targeted by Russian propaganda just like conservatives were in 2016.
They were tricked into thinking Hillary was worse.
Joe Biden doesn't control Israel's actions and to blame him is ignorant. Israel will continue doing what they're doing regardless of US support.
Israel manufactures their own weapons and is one of the top weapons exporters in the world. Blaming Biden is the propaganda show.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Bernie supporters were targeted by Russian propaganda just like conservatives were in 2016.
They were tricked into thinking Hillary was worse.
Joe Biden doesn't control Israel's actions and to blame him is ignorant. Israel will continue doing what they're doing regardless of US support.
Israel manufactures their own weapons and is one of the top weapons exporters in the world. Blaming Biden is the propaganda show.

Missing the point.
Israel buys many weapons from USA using money
USA gives them to buy weapons from USA.
Genocide Joe supports Israel unconditionally with
weapons, money, & military aid. Congress is a
co-conspirator. Shame on them.
Shame on you for excusing them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If Trump wins in November, the biggest enabler will be Biden and other Democrats who have continually supported and enabled the IDF's onslaught on Gazan civilians. Biden had the support of Arab Americans in 2020. He blew it with his blatant disregard for Arab lives.

The foreign policy of both parties has been downright abominable for decades. It's well past time for them to reconsider and change their policies instead of scapegoating voters who are fed up with having to vote for candidates who have blood on their hands. Even if I disagree with not voting for Biden given the even worse alternative, I find it understandable that some people can't bring themselves to vote for either candidate, and I lay the majority of the blame at Biden's feet.

 

[tytlyf]

Missing the point.
Israel buys many weapons from USA using money
USA gives them to buy weapons from USA.
Genocide Joe supports Israel unconditionally with
weapons, money, & military aid. Congress is a
co-conspirator. Shame on them.
Shame on you for excusing them.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying withholding a vote isn't the right way to go about it. Not voting for Biden isn't "punishing" him.
Withholding a vote only helps Trump. A Trump presidency will be much worse for the Gazan people.

 

[tytlyf]

If Trump wins in November, the biggest enabler will be Biden and other Democrats who have continually supported and enabled the IDF's onslaught on Gazan civilians. Biden had the support of Arab Americans in 2020. He blew it with his blatant disregard for Arab lives.

If Trump wins it will be because progressives didn't vote for Biden when they normally would.

The foreign policy of both parties has been downright abominable for decades. It's time for them to face the consequences and change their policies instead of scapegoating voters who are fed up with having to vote for candidates who have blood on their hands.

The election is about defeating Trump and MAGA once and for all. This election is their last hurrah. If they lose, they go away. And America can start to get back to where it was before this whole MAGA thing came about. That takes precedence.
I will be on the side of preventing a Trump presidency and doing what's right and responsible to make that happen. Voting Biden all the way.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying withholding a vote isn't the right way to go about it. Not voting for Biden isn't "punishing" him.
Withholding a vote only helps Trump. A Trump presidency will be much worse for the Gazan people.

This has been dealt with already.
I'll not explain the greater complexity again.

 

[Ignatius A]

The lesser of 2 evils in 2016 was Hillary. That's why it was responsible to vote for her to prevent a Trump presidency.
Unfortunately, many Bernie supporters believed the Russian propaganda about how Hillary rigged the nomination process.
And those voters didn't vote to prevent a Trump presidency. The same thing is happening now with the Israel/Gaza conflict.
The same people protesting Biden, like Hillary, are falling into the same propaganda trap and indirectly helping Trump win.

The best thing that happened was the talking pig in pant suit wasn't elected. Although I just admit it would be better than the buffoon in the WH now

 

[Debater Slayer]

If Trump wins it will be because progressives didn't vote for Biden when they normally would.

It's not just progressives; Arab Americans are not all progressives. In fact, they include many conservative Muslims.

Yes, both progressives and Arab Americans would normally vote for Biden, but these are not normal circumstances. He has abjectly failed both groups, especially the latter.

The election is about defeating Trump and MAGA once and for all. This election is their last hurrah. If they lose, they go away. And America can start to get back to where it was before this whole MAGA thing came about. That takes precedence.
I will be on the side of preventing a Trump presidency and doing what's right and responsible to make that happen. Voting Biden all the way.

Where was the US before the whole MAGA thing? It was still bombing the Middle East or enabling others to do it, invading countries overseas, and having largely bipartisan blessing for such militarism. Both Democratic and Republican administrations did it, and Biden is continuing the tradition.

I understand your voting decision and respect your reasoning for it. I just don't have harsh criticism for people who refuse to vote for either candidate this time.

 

[tytlyf]

The best thing that happened was the talking pig in pant suit wasn't elected. Although I just admit it would be better than the buffoon in the WH now

The division and decline in America you see today is a direct result of the Trump presidency. Hillary was the responsible choice

 

[tytlyf]

It's not just progressives; Arab Americans are not all progressives. In fact, they include many conservative Muslims.

Yes, both progressives and Arab Americans would normally vote for Biden, but these are not normal circumstances. He has abjectly failed both groups, especially the latter.



Where was the US before the whole MAGA thing? It was still bombing the Middle East or enabling others to do it, invading countries overseas, and having largely bipartisan blessing for such militarism. Both Democratic and Republican administrations did it, and Biden is continuing the tradition.

I understand your voting decision and respect your reasoning. I just don't have harsh criticism for people who refuse to vote for either candidate this time.

My criticism of them is not realizing defeating Trump should take precedence. The US will always support Israel for strategic military agendas

 

[Debater Slayer]

My criticism of them is not realizing defeating Trump should take precedence. The US will always support Israel for strategic military reasons.

Do you think Biden can or can't condition the US' military and financial support for Israel on reform of its policies? Should voters just accept the status quo as inevitable and give up on demanding changes to it?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The US will always support Israel for strategic military agendas

Optimistic. Israel cannot rely indefinitely upon the USA. First of all our evangelicals won't always support Israel and could turn against it. Every ounce of religious fervor in favor can be turned against. Just like the left has turned against it.

 

[Ignatius A]

The division and decline in America you see today is a direct result of the Trump presidency. Hillary was the responsible choice

You mean the hysterical response by leftists to the trump presidency. I agree.

 

[Revoltingest]

The division and decline in America you see today is a direct result of the Trump presidency. Hillary was the responsible choice

If you like her brand of evil, eg, unconditional
support for apartheid in Israel, intent to wage
war on Iran & other Muslim countries.
Hah! I knew you're a hawk.

 

[Ignatius A]

If you like her brand of evil.

Anyone who thinks she was the responsible choice needs help.

 

[Revoltingest]

Anyone who thinks she was the responsible choice needs help.

I can understand someone preferring Hillary.
Trump was & is bad too. But it's their
sanctimonious & vitriolic certainty that
really burns me bacon.

 

[Ignatius A]

I can understand someone preferring Hillary.
Trump was & is bad too. But it's their
sanctimonious & vitriolic certainty that
really burns me bacon.

I dont.
Incompletely agree. For me its their ignorance that bothers me and their absolute refusal to engage in even casual self examination.

 

[metis]

If Trump wins in November, the biggest enabler will be Biden and other Democrats who have continually supported and enabled the IDF's onslaught on Gazan civilians.

So, Israel has no right of self-defense? Name a war in the last couple of centuries whereas there was no "onslaught".

 

[tytlyf]

I can understand someone preferring Hillary.
Trump was & is bad too. But it's their
sanctimonious & vitriolic certainty that
really burns me bacon.

It's more than just the presidency. SCOTUS appointments are another factor when voting a new president in.
The supreme court is more conservative now than ever and Roe has fallen because of choosing Trump for president.
I voted for Hillary because it was the responsible thing to do.
If Hillary won, we'd have control of the SCOTUS and abortion would still be legal nationwide.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Liberals believe in the lesser of 2 evils when
if favors Democrats. But in 2016, they played
a different tune when it favored the Republican.
Do liberals have any value that's held in all
circumstances?

That's an over-broad claim, I think.

I'm a liberal. I live in Canada so I'm never really faced with a dichotomy as Americans are -- I don't get to vote for a Prime Minister (unless I live in his riding), as the leader of the party with the most seats will (usually) become PM. I have, in the past, voted for another party when I believed it was time for a change. Several years ago, in Ontario, I voted Conservative because it was absolutely time for the Liberals to be reduced to a rump, which they were. In the next election, all things being equal, my vote will return to a Liberal.

If I were American, however, and really had to choose between two people unfit for office -- knowing full-well, as we all do, that one of them (and nobody else) was going to win it -- then I would certainly vote for the one I considered the least unfit. That may be hard to determine, and my criteria may not be the same as someone else's, but that is exactly how I would proceed, because I would know that voting for a third-party candidate would not result in that candidate's election, and could very well end up allowing the least fit of the other two to squeak through. I would consider that a failure to vote intelligently on my part.