Absolutely. But while we identify the biggest enabler, let's not lose sight of the those expected to be the biggest losers and do what we can to mitigate those losses.
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Rep. Becca Ballint (D-VT) on Trump v Biden
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
He has been & still is a disaster.
While Hillary's record as President is perfect.
Had she won though, it would be a different story.
It's what I saw on RF.
Your mileage may vary.
You're no ordinary liberal....too libertarian for their taste.
tytlyf
Not Religious
America would be in a much better position if she won.
tytlyf
Not Religious
Maybe, but would that be sufficient to the "genocide Joe" leftists? Probably not. They're up to their necks in social media propaganda hating Biden that nothing can fix them at this point. They aren't thinking rationally about this election.
What was once an easy win for Biden against Trump is now a toss-up thanks to these leftists who can't put the country above their feelings.
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Her record as Prez is without flaw.
I can see merit to that viewpoint. It's not that I condemn those who hold it; it's that I condemn neither them nor those who are fed up enough with both candidates to vote for neither.
Just when Biden had yet another opportunity to pressure the Netanyahu government over their heinous policies and handling of the assault on Gaza, he has decided to support a large aid package for Israel as the IDF continues to kill civilians in the strip. This has already resulted in a widening of the rift between him and multiple prominent American Muslim organizations:
Muslim Americans who soured on Biden see Israel aid package as further betrayal
“If our votes and the votes of people who support the Palestinian human rights are so important, then Biden should be listening," one activist said.
www.nbcnews.com
Whether the outrage will have a tangible effect in November remains to be seen, but I suspect that many of those who have decided not to vote for Biden again already believe that they are the biggest losers no matter which candidate wins the election. It seems to me that they are between a rock and a hard place in an increasingly odious bipartisan system.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
LOL
It would be better than what he has done so far. At this point, after more than 35,000 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF with financial, military, and political support from the US, I don't think anything Biden does can fully undo the damage to his standing with a subset of voters. Nothing can bring back the tens of thousands of lost lives or undo the injuries that many more have suffered. He can only attempt damage control now.
What makes you think they're up to their necks in propaganda rather than merely dissatisfied and angry with Biden due to his own policies? It's not like he has made his support for the Israeli government's military campaign a secret. The positions for which he is receiving the most criticism are his own, not falsely attributed to him.
I don't know whether the subset of voters who are upset with Biden's policies is large enough to have any significant effect in November, but I wouldn't say this is just about "feelings." Opposing a sitting president who has militarily, financially, and politically enabled large-scale killing of civilians seems to me perfectly reasonable and understandable.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
What some people believe is not the same as what is true. They will act as if the belief is true but that usually ends badly especially if their belief isn't rooted in truth. The fact people have to face is either biden will be reelected or trump will be the next president. Complaining about it or screeching that democracy will be destroyed is useless. Working together is what's needed but lots of people wont let that happen based on particular outcomes.I can see merit to that viewpoint. It's not that I condemn those who hold it; it's that I condemn neither them nor those who are fed up enough with both candidates to vote for neither.
Just when Biden had yet another opportunity to pressure the Netanyahu government over their heinous policies and handling of the assault on Gaza, he has decided to support a large aid package for Israel as the IDF continues to kill civilians in the strip. This has already resulted in a widening of the rift between him and multiple prominent American Muslim organizations:
Muslim Americans who soured on Biden see Israel aid package as further betrayal
“If our votes and the votes of people who support the Palestinian human rights are so important, then Biden should be listening," one activist said.
Whether the outrage will have a tangible effect in November remains to be seen, but I suspect that many of those who have decided not to vote for Biden again already believe that they are the biggest losers no matter which candidate wins the election. It seems to me that they are between a rock and a hard place in an increasingly odious bipartisan system.
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The IDF has gone far beyond self-defense. No country has the right to engage in bombardment where the vast majority of those killed are civilians—after pushing over two million people into a tiny, densely populated strip, no less.
Throughout history, there have been many other examples of misguided, unjustifiable military actions in the name of self-defense. The Afghanistan and Iraq wars are conspicuous recent examples.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Who puts the civilians in harms way? Israel? Does Israel have a right to defend itself? If so how do you suggest Israel defend itself and not kill civilians when hamas uses civilians as shields?
I don't know how this is related to what I said. Yes, either Biden or Trump will be the next president-elect. Does this prevent people from withholding their votes as an act of protest?
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
In hindsight I recognize it was a ways off topic. My apologies. But to quickly answer withholding a vote is a horrible idea no matter who you're voting for.
Like I said, I can see merit to that view and don't condemn anyone who holds it. At the same time, I can't fault those who withhold their votes for either candidate this time around, if they're doing so in opposition to the policies of both.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
I get it but how does withholding a vote communicate to either candidate that someone is opposed to their policies? I sincerely dont see how that works. If it's true that people really believe trump is a threat to democracy to withhold a vote for Biden because you oppose Bidens policies on Israel seems reckless at best and dangerous at worse.
It depends on who you ask, I think. Some people withhold votes as a way of conscientious objection, so to speak, so that, from their perspective, they wouldn't be complicit in enabling the candidate's policies. Others do it to send a message that the candidate's ignoring their concerns or actively working against the safety and rights of people they care about will carry an electoral cost.
There are also many others who share the view you expressed above, of course.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
The effect of withholding a vote only has the effect of making the person feel better. It essentially does nothing to address or correct the issue that compelled them to withhold their vote in the first place. So a Democrat that doesnt like Biden policies on Israel and thinks trump will destroy democracy refuses to vote which does nothing to prevent the killing of civilians or the destruction of democracy but they feel better which did nothing to try and at least prevent either.
tytlyf
Not Religious
The problem with their mindset is they're acting like it's the US military doing the killing. Israel is. A country that makes their own decisions. Israel will continue doing what they're doing regardless of US support.
Judging by how emotionally involved they've become, that's a tell-tale sign of propaganda influence. They're willing to make their own lives worse after the election to punish Biden. And also making the Gazan people's lives worse at the same time. That's called selfishness
2016 was lost by less than 100,000 votes. Disgruntled Bernie supporters that were hopped up on the propaganda just like now. Trust me, it's enough.
Usually leftists are more educated and intelligent and think critically about things. This bunch has me thinking they're not thinking critically and are incapable of it.
That's a rather baseless and ugly ad hominem. So, for example, ...
Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said policy differences toward Israel between her and President Biden won’t stop her from supporting him in the November general election.
“Of course,” Omar said Tuesday, when asked by CNN’s Abby Phillip on “NewsNight” whether she would vote for Biden if the election were held that day, in a clip highlighted by Mediaite. “Democracy is on the line, we are facing down fascism.”
“And I personally know what my life felt like having Trump as the president of this country, and I know what it felt like for my constituents, and for people around this country and around the world,” Omar continued. “We have to do everything that we can to make sure that does not happen to our country again.”
I am deeply concerned by the "a pox on both their houses" stand. But to fail to appreciate what the U.S. government has wrought is, in my opinion, morally bankrupt.