• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Reparation?

pearl

Well-Known Member
What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.

This lack of understanding about slavery’s immanence is why white acts of private atonement are considered “conscience salves that do little to close the black-white gap,” William Darity, an economist at Duke University, told me. He calls symbolic actions “laissez-faire reparations” and argues that people who discover they have slave-owning ancestors are morally obliged to campaign for national reparations.

Because slavery was a societal institution, enshrined in the Constitution, and had societal consequences that have not been fixed, its reparation must be societal.

But Mr. Emerson, who has lectured on reparations at the University of Chicago, says that according to reparations theory, it is up to the people who were harmed to determine what might constitute sufficient restorative action. “It’s up to black folks to say when this is enough,” says Mr. Emerson. “It’s a very hard question: How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you repair the irreparable?”

Under President Trump, white interest in private reparation efforts has been on the rise, says Tom DeWolf, a director at Coming to the Table, a non-profit based at Eastern Mennonite University that brings together the descendants of slave-owners and enslaved people. Since the 2016 election, the number of monthly visitors to the organization’s website has increased from 3,000 a month to over 13,000. The number of affiliated working groups has multiplied. They aim to inject more awareness into the public space about links between slavery and current inequalities.

The reparations guide also recommends supporting H.R. 40, a bill for which former Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, campaigned since the 1980s. The bill, named after the 40 acres of land that newly emancipated African-Americans were promised and never given after the Civil War, would establish a commission to study the impact of slavery and suggest remedies.

To be sure, even if the truth is available, many white Americans still do not like to confront slavery—and, when they do, they do not feel guilty about it. “Everybody likes to talk about how their ancestors fought in the Confederacy, but nobody likes to talk about how they owned slaves,” Bruce Levine, the author of The Fall of the House of Dixie, a history of the 19th-century South, tells me. “You can’t have one without the other.” A survey in 2016 by political scientists found that 72.4 percent of white Americans questioned felt “not guilty at all” about “the privileges and benefits” they “received as white Americans.”
My ancestor owned 41 slaves. What do I owe their descendants? | America Magazine
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.

This lack of understanding about slavery’s immanence is why white acts of private atonement are considered “conscience salves that do little to close the black-white gap,” William Darity, an economist at Duke University, told me. He calls symbolic actions “laissez-faire reparations” and argues that people who discover they have slave-owning ancestors are morally obliged to campaign for national reparations.

Because slavery was a societal institution, enshrined in the Constitution, and had societal consequences that have not been fixed, its reparation must be societal.

But Mr. Emerson, who has lectured on reparations at the University of Chicago, says that according to reparations theory, it is up to the people who were harmed to determine what might constitute sufficient restorative action. “It’s up to black folks to say when this is enough,” says Mr. Emerson. “It’s a very hard question: How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you repair the irreparable?”

Under President Trump, white interest in private reparation efforts has been on the rise, says Tom DeWolf, a director at Coming to the Table, a non-profit based at Eastern Mennonite University that brings together the descendants of slave-owners and enslaved people. Since the 2016 election, the number of monthly visitors to the organization’s website has increased from 3,000 a month to over 13,000. The number of affiliated working groups has multiplied. They aim to inject more awareness into the public space about links between slavery and current inequalities.

The reparations guide also recommends supporting H.R. 40, a bill for which former Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, campaigned since the 1980s. The bill, named after the 40 acres of land that newly emancipated African-Americans were promised and never given after the Civil War, would establish a commission to study the impact of slavery and suggest remedies.

To be sure, even if the truth is available, many white Americans still do not like to confront slavery—and, when they do, they do not feel guilty about it. “Everybody likes to talk about how their ancestors fought in the Confederacy, but nobody likes to talk about how they owned slaves,” Bruce Levine, the author of The Fall of the House of Dixie, a history of the 19th-century South, tells me. “You can’t have one without the other.” A survey in 2016 by political scientists found that 72.4 percent of white Americans questioned felt “not guilty at all” about “the privileges and benefits” they “received as white Americans.”
My ancestor owned 41 slaves. What do I owe their descendants? | America Magazine

If you haven't seen this you might find it interesting: The Case for Reparations
 
Just create programs to address disadvantage in general.

If the legacy of slavery still harms people, they will disproportionately benefit.

You will get more support and it is more equitable.

If individuals whose ancestors owned slaves want to pay reparations, that's their prerogative.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I do not feel the slightest bit of guilt or shame. Why would I?

I exalt and honor my ancestors. They did beautiful things and they did terrible things. I accept all of it. If I owe anyone anything, it is them, for blessing me with life and opportunity.

No, I will not participate in “reparations”.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
If you haven't seen this you might find it interesting: The Case for Reparations

From the article;

original.jpg

Clyde Ross, photographed in November 2013 in his home in the North Lawndale neighborhood of Chicago, where he has lived for more than 50 years. When he first tried to get a legitimate mortgage, he was denied; mortgages were effectively not available to black people. (Carlos Javier Ortiz)

In the 1920s, Jim Crow Mississippi was, in all facets of society, a kleptocracy. The majority of the people in the state were perpetually robbed of the vote—a hijacking engineered through the trickery of the poll tax and the muscle of the lynch mob. Between 1882 and 1968, more black people were lynched in Mississippi than in any other state. “You and I know what’s the best way to keep the ****** from voting,” blustered Theodore Bilbo, a Mississippi senator and a proud Klansman. “You do it the night before the election.”

Excellent article, are we not attempting to repeat the same, as to stop the voting, of course without the hanging.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
New What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.
Oh, look - another liberal/progressive white person trying to speak on behalf of other groups of people. It just never ends. They can't help themselves, no matter how offensive and tone-deaf it is. That white savior complex is obviously an addiction of the ego.

Slavery is in the past. I was never a slave and it has nothing to do with us now. I have a job, I don't want your white guilt money. Get over it. This isn't the 19th century or even the 20th century.
 
Last edited:

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.

This lack of understanding about slavery’s immanence is why white acts of private atonement are considered “conscience salves that do little to close the black-white gap,” William Darity, an economist at Duke University, told me. He calls symbolic actions “laissez-faire reparations” and argues that people who discover they have slave-owning ancestors are morally obliged to campaign for national reparations.

Because slavery was a societal institution, enshrined in the Constitution, and had societal consequences that have not been fixed, its reparation must be societal.

But Mr. Emerson, who has lectured on reparations at the University of Chicago, says that according to reparations theory, it is up to the people who were harmed to determine what might constitute sufficient restorative action. “It’s up to black folks to say when this is enough,” says Mr. Emerson. “It’s a very hard question: How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you repair the irreparable?”

Under President Trump, white interest in private reparation efforts has been on the rise, says Tom DeWolf, a director at Coming to the Table, a non-profit based at Eastern Mennonite University that brings together the descendants of slave-owners and enslaved people. Since the 2016 election, the number of monthly visitors to the organization’s website has increased from 3,000 a month to over 13,000. The number of affiliated working groups has multiplied. They aim to inject more awareness into the public space about links between slavery and current inequalities.

The reparations guide also recommends supporting H.R. 40, a bill for which former Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, campaigned since the 1980s. The bill, named after the 40 acres of land that newly emancipated African-Americans were promised and never given after the Civil War, would establish a commission to study the impact of slavery and suggest remedies.

To be sure, even if the truth is available, many white Americans still do not like to confront slavery—and, when they do, they do not feel guilty about it. “Everybody likes to talk about how their ancestors fought in the Confederacy, but nobody likes to talk about how they owned slaves,” Bruce Levine, the author of The Fall of the House of Dixie, a history of the 19th-century South, tells me. “You can’t have one without the other.” A survey in 2016 by political scientists found that 72.4 percent of white Americans questioned felt “not guilty at all” about “the privileges and benefits” they “received as white Americans.”
My ancestor owned 41 slaves. What do I owe their descendants? | America Magazine

I think @Augustus has it right. We should assume a reasonable statute of limitations on state actions that would qualify for reparations. The further removed from the harm, the harder it becomes to distinguish the responsible from the harmed. History is filled with oppression and permanent harm as a result of Empire creation or expansion. How far back can one go?

Certainly I am not arguing that there is not persistent inequity in the US as a result of slavery and post-slavery policies and prejudices. It is with us today. But the US is much more than white and black today. What percentage of those classified as "White" are actual descendants of slave owners. My grandparents came from Ireland. They were of an oppressed majority in their own country. What percentage of Americans are decedents of immigrants from all over the world since the Civil War?

If the prejudices and inequities imbedded in the US affect other ethnic groups, should they also benefit, since they are currently experiencing the effects? What of those with both white and black ancestry? What percentage of blackness will suffice for reparations? A 16th? A 64th? What if your ancestor arrived from Africa in the 20th century? Are you eligible for reparations, or only those who can prove descendance from slaves?

These are all problems that make reparations at this late date untenable. I feel @Augustus 's solution is the most realistic.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Just create programs to address disadvantage in general.

If the legacy of slavery still harms people, they will disproportionately benefit.

You will get more support and it is more equitable.

If individuals whose ancestors owned slaves want to pay reparations, that's their prerogative.
I think it would be difficult to come up with a reasonable and agreeable solution. I think it's best to address the ongoing racism in the USA after the Civil War, and even past the Civil Rights Act, and other civil rights laws. If there is any way to find any wealth still existing that was generated by slavery that might be tapped into. The South as a region defined by slavery can't really be held accountable today, even if there is a great deal of racism in those areas.

What I think would work is a federal and state investments in black minority communities that lack resources and opportunity. Trusts could buy up abandoned houses and commercial buildings and employ the locals to renovate, and then sell to new local buyers with special types of mortgages that offer lower long term costs. And give people wanting to start a new business grants for leases and give them mentorship to help solve problems. I think this would help invigorate communities and help them build a sustainable economy, as it builds more local opportunities for work.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Oh, look - another liberal/progressive white person trying to speak on behalf of other groups of people. It just never ends. They can't help themselves, no matter how offensive and tone-deaf it is. That white savior complex is obviously an addiction of the ego.

Slavery is in the past. I was never a slave and it has nothing to do with us now. I have a job, I don't want your white guilt money. Get over it. This isn't the 19th century or even the 20th century.
You don't like him climbing on your
shoulders for his virtue-signal perch?.

But as you say, it's over. You figured out that
it's time to tell yourself a new story, go forth
and be a success.

Giving you or anyone 40 acres and a mule isn't. it.

I won't go to Tokyo and demand they pay
for the harm done to my family in WW2.

Or demand a special immigration policy to
make up for the Asian Exclusion Act.

It over. Time to get over it.

I will take one of these clowns seriously
when he gives his land back to the Indians.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.

This lack of understanding about slavery’s immanence is why white acts of private atonement are considered “conscience salves that do little to close the black-white gap,” William Darity, an economist at Duke University, told me. He calls symbolic actions “laissez-faire reparations” and argues that people who discover they have slave-owning ancestors are morally obliged to campaign for national reparations.

Because slavery was a societal institution, enshrined in the Constitution, and had societal consequences that have not been fixed, its reparation must be societal.

But Mr. Emerson, who has lectured on reparations at the University of Chicago, says that according to reparations theory, it is up to the people who were harmed to determine what might constitute sufficient restorative action. “It’s up to black folks to say when this is enough,” says Mr. Emerson. “It’s a very hard question: How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you repair the irreparable?”

Under President Trump, white interest in private reparation efforts has been on the rise, says Tom DeWolf, a director at Coming to the Table, a non-profit based at Eastern Mennonite University that brings together the descendants of slave-owners and enslaved people. Since the 2016 election, the number of monthly visitors to the organization’s website has increased from 3,000 a month to over 13,000. The number of affiliated working groups has multiplied. They aim to inject more awareness into the public space about links between slavery and current inequalities.

The reparations guide also recommends supporting H.R. 40, a bill for which former Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, campaigned since the 1980s. The bill, named after the 40 acres of land that newly emancipated African-Americans were promised and never given after the Civil War, would establish a commission to study the impact of slavery and suggest remedies.

To be sure, even if the truth is available, many white Americans still do not like to confront slavery—and, when they do, they do not feel guilty about it. “Everybody likes to talk about how their ancestors fought in the Confederacy, but nobody likes to talk about how they owned slaves,” Bruce Levine, the author of The Fall of the House of Dixie, a history of the 19th-century South, tells me. “You can’t have one without the other.” A survey in 2016 by political scientists found that 72.4 percent of white Americans questioned felt “not guilty at all” about “the privileges and benefits” they “received as white Americans.”
My ancestor owned 41 slaves. What do I owe their descendants? | America Magazine
There were black slave owners as well. Are they disqualified?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Oh, look - another liberal/progressive white person trying to speak on behalf of other groups of people. It just never ends. They can't help themselves, no matter how offensive and tone-deaf it is. That white savior complex is obviously an addiction of the ego.

Slavery is in the past. I was never a slave and it has nothing to do with us now. I have a job, I don't want your white guilt money. Get over it. This isn't the 19th century or even the 20th century.
I think we need to learn from the past and not repeat its dark side. Not live in it imo.

I figure that was a matter involving people long dead and gone with issues not ours, but theirs.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think we need to learn from the past and not repeat its dark side. Not live in it imo.

I figure that was a matter involving people long dead and gone with issues not ours, but theirs.

Except that those injustices became culturally inbedded and the discrimination institutionalized such that it affected generation after generation. The harm persists.

Changing culture is extremely difficult.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Except that those injustices became culturally inbedded and the discrimination institutionalized such that it affected generation after generation. The harm persists.

Changing culture is extremely difficult.
But it's changing.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I am not in favor of reparations per se, but I am strongly in favor of us putting more funding and effort into public schools in poor areas and also having stricter enforcement against acts of racism and discrimination. The U.S. is the only one of the 20 most industrialized countries that spends less on educating the poor in lower-income districts than on middle and upper-income districts.
 

Suave

Simulated character
I do not feel the slightest bit of guilt or shame. Why would I?

I exalt and honor my ancestors. They did beautiful things and they did terrible things. I accept all of it. If I owe anyone anything, it is them, for blessing me with life and opportunity.

No, I will not participate in “reparations”.
I pay reparations when I visit Evanston where taxes on cannabis sales there fund housing grants to Black residents who were victimized by discriminatory policies. :)

o-1.jpg
 
Last edited:

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
What white Americans treat as a historical curiosity—something to investigate if we choose to—is to black Americans a cruel, unavoidable ghost that haunts this nation’s cities, schools, hospitals and prisons.

This lack of understanding about slavery’s immanence is why white acts of private atonement are considered “conscience salves that do little to close the black-white gap,” William Darity, an economist at Duke University, told me. He calls symbolic actions “laissez-faire reparations” and argues that people who discover they have slave-owning ancestors are morally obliged to campaign for national reparations.

Because slavery was a societal institution, enshrined in the Constitution, and had societal consequences that have not been fixed, its reparation must be societal.

But Mr. Emerson, who has lectured on reparations at the University of Chicago, says that according to reparations theory, it is up to the people who were harmed to determine what might constitute sufficient restorative action. “It’s up to black folks to say when this is enough,” says Mr. Emerson. “It’s a very hard question: How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you repair the irreparable?”

Under President Trump, white interest in private reparation efforts has been on the rise, says Tom DeWolf, a director at Coming to the Table, a non-profit based at Eastern Mennonite University that brings together the descendants of slave-owners and enslaved people. Since the 2016 election, the number of monthly visitors to the organization’s website has increased from 3,000 a month to over 13,000. The number of affiliated working groups has multiplied. They aim to inject more awareness into the public space about links between slavery and current inequalities.

The reparations guide also recommends supporting H.R. 40, a bill for which former Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, campaigned since the 1980s. The bill, named after the 40 acres of land that newly emancipated African-Americans were promised and never given after the Civil War, would establish a commission to study the impact of slavery and suggest remedies.

To be sure, even if the truth is available, many white Americans still do not like to confront slavery—and, when they do, they do not feel guilty about it. “Everybody likes to talk about how their ancestors fought in the Confederacy, but nobody likes to talk about how they owned slaves,” Bruce Levine, the author of The Fall of the House of Dixie, a history of the 19th-century South, tells me. “You can’t have one without the other.” A survey in 2016 by political scientists found that 72.4 percent of white Americans questioned felt “not guilty at all” about “the privileges and benefits” they “received as white Americans.”
My ancestor owned 41 slaves. What do I owe their descendants? | America Magazine

I never thought it was historically accurate to suggest that slavery was caused by an entire race of people. It was caused by an ideology and a political/economic system which existed at the time of America's founding and still remains mostly intact to this day (except for a few minor tweaks).

I think the current narrative tries to sanitize and compartmentalize many aspects of our history, and this seems to cause confusion and meets resistance as a result.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
You don't like him climbing on your
shoulders for his virtue-signal perch?.

But as you say, it's over. You figured out that
it's time to tell yourself a new story, go forth
and be a success.

Giving you or anyone 40 acres and a mule isn't. it.

I won't go to Tokyo and demand they pay
for the harm done to my family in WW2.

Or demand a special immigration policy to
make up for the Asian Exclusion Act.

It over. Time to get over it.

I will take one of these clowns seriously
when he gives his land back to the Indians.
Exactly. The time for reparations was right when the slaves were freed, to give to the people who were actually slaves. But now it's many generations in the past.
 
What I think would work is a federal and state investments in black minority communities that lack resources and opportunity. Trusts could buy up abandoned houses and commercial buildings and employ the locals to renovate, and then sell to new local buyers with special types of mortgages that offer lower long term costs. And give people wanting to start a new business grants for leases and give them mentorship to help solve problems. I think this would help invigorate communities and help them build a sustainable economy, as it builds more local opportunities for work.

If this policy was successful, why limit it to black communities? Start with the most needy communities regardless of race, and black people should gain disproportionately if the legacy of slavery remains.

Saying poor black people deserve special help, but other poor folk don't is not a recipe for building racial harmony as it builds new sources of resentment. This is even more so if reparations are given to better off black people, while poorer people of other races get nothing.
 
Top