Resolved: Americans Are Becoming Wiser on the Foolishness of Gun Ownership

[Scuba Pete]

There is certainly a lot of fear associated with registering guns here in the USA and it has grown considerably in the last few years. I'm not certain that this impacts the data or not, but I can certainly see that as a possibility. I'm far more leery of a non-registered user than those that want to follow the laws of the land.

 

[Nous]

The GSS is flat out wrong and liberally biased.

Prove it. (Perhaps you haven't understood that one's baseless assertions are not a logical basis for any argument in a debate.)

 

[Neo Deist]

Prove it. (Perhaps you haven't understood that one's baseless assertions are not a logical basis for any argument in a debate.)

Post #20 is a good starter.

 

[Nous]

Post #20 is a good starter.

I you proven that anything I've stated or quoted is erroneous.

ERRATUM: WTF? Did I really say that? Where is my secretary? What I meant to say was: You haven't proven that anything I've stated or quoted is erroneous.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Prove it.

Damn! Who peed in your cornflakes? It's not a 'baseless' contention that the NRA types worry needlessly over registration. Here, read this piece they put out: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160603/what-strong-case-for-gun-registration

Here's a piece from the other side:
I don't understand your aversion to basic discussion here, but cheese, Louise. I don't feel welcome in your thread.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

The effect of a gun in the home is not to increase the occupants' safety but to greatly increase the risk of the gun-owner, family members or acquaintances dying from a gun shot: http://www.bradycampaign.org/risks-of-having-a-gun-in-the-home This increased risk of homicide and suicide in households with guns occurs regardless of storage practice, type of gun or number of guns in the home: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

And the General Social Survey finds very clear trends of declining gun-ownership and households with guns in the US, with the percentage of households with guns dropping from 50.4% in 1977 to 31% in 2014, and a similar decline in the percentage of adults in households with guns. The largest percentage of survey respondents who reported owning at least one gun was in 1985, amounting to less than one-third of respondents (30.5%); this figure has shrunk to 22.4% in 2014 (which is slightly up from 2010): http://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS Reports/GSS_Trends in Gun Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf

I don't know how else to interpret these data than that Americans are becoming wiser on the injudiciousness of owning guns. There is certainly no basis for interpreting these figures as showing Americans becoming less wise regarding gun ownership, as there are no benefits to gun ownership.

Americans' progress in learning this is slow, all too slow, and Americans are far behind other countries in acquiring this wisdom, but it seems to be steady progress nevertheless.

No
period.
.....
I disagree this is always to insert brainwashing with something else.
I could follow this "train" of thought carefully...
1. Because you have a statistic and want people to believe that.
2. Also, if I wanted to manipulate my will on you; I would have to create a problem intentionally to better absorb that will.
3. Then the insert of whatever else (agenda) fascism, can be absorbed.
Which is false.
4. Another thing that is false, is saying that because of this report we automatically think gun ownership is foolish because not everyone has one.
Also false.
5. Its like saying that because we believe in freedom of religion that anything done to another or done period is okay!
Also false
Ex. Just because we have freedom of religion does not make that assumption that it's all foolish.
extended... anything said made or done in religion or any religion is okay like people would agree with it, or running it to the other side by saying that no religion, no beliefs is okay. We don't just assume that.
Stop trying to create chaos for no reason other then playing one side of manipulation for agenda absorption.

 

[Quetzal]

Stop trying to create chaos for no reason other then playing one side of manipulation for agenda absorption.

I think we have skipped some levels here...

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

No
period.
.....
I disagree this is always to insert brainwashing with something else.
I could follow this "train" of thought carefully...
1. Because you have a statistic and want people to believe that.
2. Also, if I wanted to manipulate my will on you; I would have to create a problem intentionally to better absorb that will.
3. Then the insert of whatever else (agenda) fascism, can be absorbed.
Which is false.
4. Another thing that is false, is saying that because of this report we automatically think gun ownership is foolish because not everyone has one.
Also false.
5. Its like saying that because we believe in freedom of religion that anything done to another or done period is okay!
Also false
Ex. Just because we have freedom of religion does not make that assumption that it's all foolish.
extended... anything said made or done in religion or any religion is okay like people would agree with it, or running it to the other side by saying that no religion, no beliefs is okay. We don't just assume that.
Stop trying to create chaos for no reason other then playing one side of manipulation for agenda absorption.

Extended...
I could go on and on.
Or saying that because not everyone or even many don't have children means we assume that having children is false or marriage is false.

 

[Nous]

Damn! Who peed in your cornflakes? It's not a 'baseless' contention that the NRA types worry needlessly over registration. Here, read this piece they put out: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160603/what-strong-case-for-gun-registration

Here's a piece from the other side:
I don't understand your aversion to basic discussion here, but cheese, Louise. I don't feel welcome in your thread.

Yeah, the NRA is an excellent propaganda machine.

(It's too bad we can't rate a post Like, Funny and Informative at the same time--I give yours all three.)

 

[Nous]

No
period.
.....
I disagree this is always to insert brainwashing with something else.
I could follow this "train" of thought carefully...
1. Because you have a statistic and want people to believe that.
2. Also, if I wanted to manipulate my will on you; I would have to create a problem intentionally to better absorb that will.
3. Then the insert of whatever else (agenda) fascism, can be absorbed.
Which is false.
4. Another thing that is false, is saying that because of this report we automatically think gun ownership is foolish because not everyone has one.
Also false.
5. Its like saying that because we believe in freedom of religion that anything done to another or done period is okay!
Also false
Ex. Just because we have freedom of religion does not make that assumption that it's all foolish.
extended... anything said made or done in religion or any religion is okay like people would agree with it, or running it to the other side by saying that no religion, no beliefs is okay. We don't just assume that.
Stop trying to create chaos for no reason other then playing one side of manipulation for agenda absorption.

Wow, I don't have the slightest clue as to what any of that is supposed to mean.

If there is anything I stated or quoted in the OP that you believe is erroneous, quote it and demonstrate its error.

 

[Mister_T]

The majority here seem to be confirmed gun owners, they swallow everything the gun lobby puts out as god' s truth.

As an American gun owner, I don't associate myself with any gun lobby, in any way, shape or form. Obviously you can own a gun and be against what the gun lobby stands for.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

I think we have skipped some levels here...

I

Wow, I don't have the slightest clue as to what any of that is supposed to mean.

If there is anything I stated or quoted in the OP that you believe is erroneous, quote it and demonstrate its error.

no,
Just because not everyone has a gun doesn't mean that all those who don't have one believe that owning guns is foolish because of your statistic you posted.

 

[BSM1]

Sure, if they are a legitimate seller.

Good on you, Q! I think you have unwittingly hit the nail on the head. There are countless "illegitimate" gun sells and gun sellers in play every day all over this country. This is the problem that can be associated with gun violence, not the law abiding gun owners. No amount of legislation will affect these people; and it is pure foolishness to even believe that these weapons can be confiscated by the government without an all out military or paramilitary evolution (which, by law, cannot happen). There are many law abiding citizens who own guns simply because they are willing to accept the responsibility of their and their family's safety and defense. I am definitely one of these citizens. I do not hunt, sport shoot, or go to the practice range. I have my weapon(s) within easy reach in case you enter my home in the middle of the night without an invitation. Not being a very good shot, I plan on hitting you dead center as many times as possible. Having been in the home security business for the last thirty years I've seen these types that have no regard for your life or property. They will hurt you and then go have a beer. Will I be able to beat them? I don't know, but I am sure as Hell not going to make it easy for them. So if you want to campaign on gun eradication in this world I will be right there with you, just as long as my weapon is the last one on the pile.

 

[Quetzal]

Good on you, Q! I think you have unwittingly hit the nail on the head. There are countless "illegitimate" gun sells and gun sellers in play every day all over this country. This is the problem that can be associated with gun violence, not the law abiding gun owners. No amount of legislation will affect these people; and it is pure foolishness to even believe that these weapons can be confiscated by the government without an all out military or paramilitary evolution (which, by law, cannot happen). There are many law abiding citizens who own guns simply because they are willing to accept the responsibility of their and their family's safety and defense. I am definitely one of these citizens. I do not hunt, sport shoot, or go to the practice range. I have my weapon(s) within easy reach in case you enter my home in the middle of the night without an invitation. Not being a very good shot, I plan on hitting you dead center as many times as possible. Having been in the home security business for the last thirty years I've seen these types that have no regard for your life or property. They will hurt you and then go have a beer. Will I be able to beat them? I don't know, but I am sure as Hell not going to make it easy for them. So if you want to campaign on gun eradication in this world I will be right there with you, just as long as my weapon is the last one on the pile.

Whats funny is my position on this issue has changed the most since coming here on RF. While anyone can find statistics to support either side, the most compelling arguments I have heard have come from folks on this forum. Fast forward to now, and I am more apt to agree in regards to gun legislation. If there are effective means to do so, great. But not at the expense of punishing law-abiding gun owners.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Death goes to naught, and every reaper ever... If your passive.

 

[MonkeyFire]

A pacifist can make himself safe. Live and let die. Dis-belief and hell suffer on their own. As well does he create his own happiness.