Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[Dawnofhope]

I don't concern myself with what others think about Bible interpretation.
Most get it wrong.
So I don't think I understand the question.

Just trying to see how you connect Exodus 34:35-36 with Matthew 5:17

 

[Dawnofhope]

My thread was from late 2016 so not that old.

Why do you say illogical and non-scriptural? Do you doubt the Bible scholars? All of this is pretty important stuff for Christians just to take on faith.

Not all bible scholars of course would agree with a physical resurrection. So I guess if we want to have bible scholars as our authority then we have a problem. I think what you may mean is the authority of bible scholars who believe as you do.

I'm interested to hear the arguments of anyone who has given this serious thought whether it be for or against a physical resurrection. As I've stated in my OP this is a core Christian belief so it is important stuff. There is a lot at stake for us all.

Its not hard to have a negative experience with interfaith discussions on RF. The criteria I have are:
(1) The capacity for reasoned arguments
(2) The authority and authenticity of biblical scripture
(3) Respectful and courteous discussion

 

[Deeje]

Are you aware that many early Christians did not believe in a physical resurrection at all?

I am aware that the Jewish sect of the Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, but the Pharisees did. All of the early Christians believed in the same resurrection as the Jews....a physical return to life on earth under Messiah's kingdom.
They had no notion of a spiritual resurrection at all, which is the reason why the apostles had such a hard time understanding why Jesus said he was going away to somewhere they could not yet go. Even as Jesus was ascending to heaven, they asked if he was restoring the kingdom to Israel at that time. (Acts 1:6)

Understanding what resurrection meant to the Jews and how Jesus and the apostles demonstrated resurrections back in the first century, clearly shows it to be a physical resurrection as the case of Lazarus demonstrated. Where was Lazarus before Jesus "woke" him up? (John 11:11-14)

It wasn't until the oupouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost that the disciples of Jesus were anointed and given a deep understanding of what a spiritual resurrection was and why it had to take place.
Those chosen to be kings and priests with Jesus were to receive a special kind of resurrection, (Revelation 20:6) just as Jesus did...."he was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". Jesus is called "the firstborn from the dead" because he was the first one to experience that kind of resurrection......but he was certainly not the first person to be resurrected.

As a spirit being, the resurrected Jesus could take on human form to appear to his apostles. Thousands of people saw him, but spirits are invisible. Angels materialised when they needed to convey instructions to God's human servants, so Jesus too, materialised in different bodies for the 40 days he remained on earth before his ascension.

Another aspect is that the Christian world view included a physical hell below the earth and heaven up in the sky. The earth was the centre of the universe. That creates problems if we still have this belief because we know a lot more about what's up there in space now than we used to.

From their earth-bound position, to humans, heaven was "above", which could be anywhere.....an other dimension, an invisible place that cannot be seen or measured by human means. Heaven was the place where God lived, as Jesus indicated. (Matthew 6:9)

Hell, or (Sheol) was "below the earth" because it was simply the grave. No one was alive in that place. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

Knowing what is up there in space doesn't really alter anything.

If we see heaven and hell as being in the invisible spiritual realm then it creates difficulties with Jesus literally rising into heaven if that means the sky.

That is merely a misinterpretation of scripture. "Heaven" is an invisible realm where only spirit beings can exist. "Hell" is the place where all the dead go, according to Solomon. (Ecclesiastes 9:10) There is no activity in that place. So Jesus rising in a spiritual body was a demonstration of the kind of resurrection his chosen ones would undergo as well. These, he said would be resurrected "first". (Revelation 20:6) As part of the heavenly government that will rule earthly subjects, both kinds of resurrections are spoken about in the scriptures. Jesus says he will call "both the righteous and the unrighteous" out of their graves, just like Lazarus. (John 5:28-29) It was God's first purpose to have a race of perfect humans to live on earth forever......the devil derailed that purpose temporarily, but through Christ's death and resurrection, God fulfills that purpose.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I like @Quintessence view of Pagan vs. pagan. She did the upper and lower case but definitions vary of course. pagan just means someone who isn't Christian, Muslim, or Jew. Pagan is someone who believes in religions in Europe. So, I'm pagan with a practice. I don't like neo-pagan problem the same as you don't like new age. So, I'm just me.

If I practiced Catholicism again, I'd have to go to confession. I don't practice both; so, there isn't a discrepancy between the two.

What a journey. Thank you for sharing. You are really a Catholic - Pagan! In a way we are both bound by our Christian Faiths and can not stray too far from the fold. For the last 5 years I have been doing volunteer work at a Christian medical Centre run by conservative Christians. I'm the only who is has a faith other than Christian there.

As you rightly point out we all have a particular world view that's not going to change in a hurry and I view the world through a Baha'i lens in a similar way that a Christian, Muslim, and Jew views the world through their faith.

Think about it. Little over 2,000 years ago wasn't that long ago. If someone died today, burried in a mausoleum, I think it's called, and we opened it up a day later we should find the a body there.

I have thought about this a great deal over the years. There are many other explanations for an empty tomb. The Bab, forerunner to Baha'u'llah was executed by a militia of 750 of His own countrymen. They dumped his body so it could not be used as a source of worship for His followers but they retrieved His body anyhow and for 50+ years it was carted around until finally being laid to rest on Mt Carmel Haifa also known as the mountain of Elijah.

But the main thing is, no one can be saved without jesus' physical resurrection. The physical and spiritual go together. They cannot be separated.

Yes, that it what many Christians believe.

 

[allfoak]

Just trying to see how you connect Exodus 34:35-36 with Matthew 5:17

Moses represents the law.
He was not able to enter the promise land.
The law must be fulfilled in order to lift the veil and enter.
The glory of God cannot be looked upon by merely studying the law, but rather fulfilling the law

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Stories about the afterlife are inconsistent with each other in the Bible. The above is a quote from a post I made previously.

Hey, Brickjectivity! Hope you're doing well.

You mean get enjoy this link, regarding the Bible's viewpoint on the Resurrection. I don't agree with everything they say, but it's quite in-depth.

Take care.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi Deeje

Understanding what resurrection meant to the Jews and how Jesus and the apostles demonstrated resurrections back in the first century, clearly shows it to be a physical resurrection as the case of Lazarus demonstrated. Where was Lazarus before Jesus "woke" him up? (John 11:11-14)

It isn't as clear as you think.

Historicity and origin of the Resurrection of Jesus - Wikipedia

It wasn't until the oupouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost that the disciples of Jesus were anointed and given a deep understanding of what a spiritual resurrection was and why it had to take place.

Once again we don't know that for certain.

Those chosen to be kings and priests with Jesus were to receive a special kind of resurrection, (Revelation 20:6) just as Jesus did...."he was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". Jesus is called "the firstborn from the dead" because he was the first one to experience that kind of resurrection......but he was certainly not the first person to be resurrected.

Revelations is a highly symbolic book that the Jehovah Witnesses as interpreting literally.

As a spirit being, the resurrected Jesus could take on human form to appear to his apostles. Thousands of people saw him, but spirits are invisible. Angels materialised when they needed to convey instructions to God's human servants, so Jesus too, materialised in different bodies for the 40 days he remained on earth before his ascension.

The term 'resurrection from the dead' arose before the Christian era in regards to a myth of the last judgement. As it is symbolic or metaphorical it is open to a wide variety of interpretations. The disciples in the gospel of Mark even questioned 'what the rising from the dead' meant. Paul, Mark, Luke, and John all seem to have understood the resurrection of Jesus in different ways.

Knowing what is up there in space doesn't really alter anything.

It alters everything if you literally believe Jesus physically ascended into heaven.

That is merely a misinterpretation of scripture. "Heaven" is an invisible realm where only spirit beings can exist. "Hell" is the place where all the dead go, according to Solomon. (Ecclesiastes 9:10) There is no activity in that place.

I'm in agreement with most other Christians who view we have a soul that progresses to an afterlife.

These, he said would be resurrected "first". (Revelation 20:6) As part of the heavenly government that will rule earthly subjects, both kinds of resurrections are spoken about in the scriptures.

Isn't this a JW teaching after the prophecy concerning the end of Armageddon and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth failed to materialise in 1914.?

1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

Best Wishes

 

[Dawnofhope]

Moses represents the law.
He was not able to enter the promise land.
The law must be fulfilled in order to lift the veil and enter.
The glory of God cannot be looked upon by merely studying the law, but rather fulfilling the law

Thank you for explaining your reasoning. They are interesting connections to make. I understand it in regard to Jesus fulfilling prophecy in regards to the Messiah the Jews were waiting for. That's one of the main themes of the gospels. I'm certain with prayer and careful meditation on the sacred writings this matter will become clearer.

 

[Deeje]

Hi Deeje

It isn't as clear as you think.

Isn't clear to whom?

It is as clear as crystal to Bible believers Adrian. Unbelievers will just poke around in the dark being driven by every wind of teaching. The indecisive person has no place with God.
James 1:6-8:
"...for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about.  In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah;  he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

Once again we don't know that for certain.

Bible believers have no reason to doubt. What do you think "faith" is? (Hebrews 11:1) Without faith we have no connection to God at all.
The apostle Paul wrote...."Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him."

I believe him....how about you?

Revelations is a highly symbolic book that the Jehovah Witnesses as interpreting literally.

No we do not. It is highly a symbolic book, but also has its literal moments. God reveals which is which. We have studied Revelation extensively. It is about our future...unfolding before our eyes.

The term 'resurrection from the dead' arose before the Christian era in regards to a myth of the last judgement. As it is symbolic or metaphorical it is open to a wide variety of interpretations. The disciples in the gospel of Mark even questioned 'what the rising from the dead' meant. Paul, Mark, Luke, and John all seem to have understood the resurrection of Jesus in different ways.

They were all Jewish and had a Jewish understanding of death and resurrection. The Jews had no belief in an immortal soul, but in the future physical resurrection of the dead. When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus, it was physical. The man had been dead 4 days and his sister even admitted that his corpse must be decomposing after so long in the middle Eastern heat. (John 11:5-44) Are you saying that Lazarus wasn't really dead?

In the Bible, resurrections were performed through Elijah, Elisha, Jesus, Peter, and Paul. All were brought back to life on earth and reunited with their loved ones.This was pictorial of the resurrections that will take place under the rule of God's King, Jesus Christ. (John 5:28-29) Those we have lost due to Adam's sin will be returned to us. Death will then be done away with. (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

It alters everything if you literally believe Jesus physically ascended into heaven.

Flesh and blood bodies cannot exist outside of earth's atmosphere. (1 Corinthians 15: 50-57) Jesus ascended to heaven in a spiritual body, just as the scriptures say. He was a spirit before coming to live as a human on earth, and he was restored to his former glory upon his return to his Father. (John 17:5)

I'm in agreement with most other Christians who view we have a soul that progresses to an afterlife.

The Bible does not teach about an afterlife....pagan religions do.

Is yours a pagan religion adrianhindes?

Isn't this a JW teaching after the prophecy concerning the end of Armageddon and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth failed to materialise in 1914.?

Huh?

This is a Bible teaching, nothing to do with failed prophesies.

The apostle Paul wrote at 1 Thess 4:13-17:
"Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord"

As an anointed Christian, Paul expected to be one of those who would be called to heaven to "always be with the Lord". But you notice the timeframe....? It wasn't to take place until Christ's return.....not as a human but as King of God's Kingdom, crushing corrupt human rulership out of existence and bringing in Theocratic rule over all the earth. Daniel saw this in vision which was to take place at the "time of the end". (Daniel 2:44; Daniel 12:9, 10)

The apostle John saw this kingdom and described it as "New Jerusalem"...Christ and his bride bringing their heavenly rulership to earthly subjects.
Revelation 21:2-4:
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Sounds good to me!

Bring it on!!!

 

[allfoak]

Thank you for explaining your reasoning. They are interesting connections to make. I understand it in regard to Jesus fulfilling prophecy in regards to the Messiah the Jews were waiting for. That's one of the main themes of the gospels. I'm certain with prayer and careful meditation on the sacred writings this matter will become clearer.

Without the proper foundation, none of it makes sense.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Isn't clear to whom?

It is as clear as crystal to Bible believers Adrian. Unbelievers will just poke around in the dark being driven by every wind of teaching. The indecisive person has no place with God.
James 1:6-8:
"...for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about.  In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah;  he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

Its clear as crystal to those who don't want to think too long and hard. I'm sure the belief in earth being the centre of the universe was clear as crystal to Christians for 1,000 years. Should we give them all a pat on the back because they had faith and didn't questions? We should investigate the realities of scripture in light of science and reason? Your argument is essentially someone who asks questions doesn't have faith.

No we do not. It is highly a symbolic book, but also has its literal moments. God reveals which is which. We have studied Revelation extensively. It is about our future...unfolding before our eyes.

I would humbly encourage you to consider that the Jehovah witnesses interpretation of the book of revelation has led to considerable criticism from the wider Christian community. I'm certain you know this.

Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia

"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:22

They were all Jewish and had a Jewish understanding of death and resurrection. The Jews had no belief in an immortal soul, but in the future physical resurrection of the dead.

Lets do some research about that one:

Judaism 101: Olam Ha-Ba: The Afterlife

Clearly a diverse range of thoughts within Judaism regarding an after life.

When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus, it was physical. The man had been dead 4 days and his sister even admitted that his corpse must be decomposing after so long in the middle Eastern heat. (John 11:5-44) Are you saying that Lazarus wasn't really dead?

I don't know Deeje. I wasn't there and nor were you. I know that God has the power to bring someone to life. If it happened I wouldn't have a problem with it. The problem with Jesus rising from the dead is that he rose up to heaven (in the sky) and there's no heaven in the sky. We need to understand the deeper meanings behind the miracles rather than taking scripture literally.

The Bible does not teach about an afterlife....pagan religions do.

Is yours a pagan religion adrianhindes?

If you use that argument you are accusing Christianity of being a pagan religion? I don't think the Christians will be too pleased to hear the Jehovah witnesses calling them pagans.

Christianity on the Afterlife - ReligionFacts

Sounds good to me!

Bring it on!!!

At least with Gods' kingdom on earth that the Baha'is are talking about you can actually demonstrate the connections with apocalyptic verses. With the JW kingdom we have absolutely no way of telling whether its real or imagination. Logic and its track record with predicting world events strongly suggests imagination.

I think you will be waiting a long time to see your prophecies from the book of revelation fulfilled.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Without the proper foundation, none of it makes sense.

Are you saying you don't understand how Christ is a fulfilment of OT prophecy and who He is?

 

[allfoak]

Are you saying you don't understand how Christ is a fulfilment of OT prophecy and who He is?

It must take a lot of work to maintain one of these threads?

No that is not what i meant.
I understand enough to have something to share.
I generally don't talk about things that i don't understand.

What i was responding to was your sign off on my last post.

I'm certain with prayer and careful meditation on the sacred writings this matter will become clearer.

While to some degree this is true, you will still require the proper foundation to get past a certain point of understanding.
The core message has been thoroughly gutted from the Bible.
For instance, these are quotes from the Gospel of Thomas:

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."


11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

One of the things that must be understood is that the greater part of us is our eternal souls.
We are all prodigal sons and daughters of our Father who is in heaven.
It is through many lifetimes that we finally become perfected and return to the Father as Jesus did.

This one is from the Gospel of the Nazarenes:
Chapter 37
I post this one to show you how the message has even been removed from the OT.
This was once part of Job 2:9

8."So through many changes must you be made perfect, as it is written in the book of Job, 'I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house, until I come into the city and mansion which is eternal.'"

 

[rusra02]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

Historical fact, IMO. There were hundreds of eyewitnesses to whom Christ appeared after his resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:3-8) These men and women were so convinced of Jesus resurrection, they were willing to die rather than renounce their faith in Jesus Christ. The reality of Christ's literal resurrection as a spirit person, and how important this is for his followers, is masterfully explained in 1 Corinthians 15:12-58.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I liked how DeeJee explained Christ's resurrection post 63.

It wasn't until the oupouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost that the disciples of Jesus were anointed and given a deep understanding of what a spiritual resurrection was and why it had to take place.

@adrianhindes (not Deeje)

Remember, all the disciples and everyone who believed in Christ always looked for physical signs that coincide with their faith: Walking on water. Making water into wine. Raising the dead. (Moses) Parting the sea. Things like that.

The spiritual and physical go together. One isn't above the other. There isn't "just" a spiritual within, you need a physical to make sense of reality. If everything and person were spirit (since physical doesn't matter), we wouldn't be alive. We'd just be energy, no earth, nothing. The physical Resurrection needed to be there because that was the physical representation for the disciples and jesus mother and siblings (and crowd) to know he actually ascended.

If you went back then and asked them if jesus rose spiritually since you are assuming all of the sudden he had no body, they'd look at you funny. They'd probably think you are practicing some form of witchcraft for something so taboo. That "spiritual and not religious" is modern. It's not ancient. For example,

This is just a tourist (lack of better words) item. However, Lukumi from what I'm told believe that they can put the spirits of the Orishas in their given statues. You have Jesus in the Eucharist. Holy Spirit in Christians. Some pagans who practice necromancy as I do have spirits in us of the people we are praying for.

If I was standing in the middle of traffic and a car came towards me, if I closed my eyes and said "my spirit would help me" I'd still get hit. I need to physically move so I would not get hit by a car. There is a lot physical can do, represent, and teach. Just because it is jesus christ and christianity doesn't exclude the nature of many religions and their ties to using physical things as part of or representing spiritual concepts or "truths."

As a spirit being, the resurrected Jesus could take on human form to appear to his apostles. Thousands of people saw him, but spirits are invisible. Angels materialised when they needed to convey instructions to God's human servants, so Jesus too, materialised in different bodies for the 40 days he remained on earth before his ascension.

@adrianhindes "Spirits are invisible." How do you know christ resurrected if you just know him spiritually but not physically? For example, and everyone is different, my mother can say I love you a thousand times. She can even try to teleport the sentence. If she doesn't hug me or display love beyond getting me "stuff" then that I-love-you doesn't mean much. People need to see things not be in the middle of nowhere thinking the spiritual is all they need.

What a journey. Thank you for sharing. You are really a Catholic - Pagan! In a way we are both bound by our Christian Faiths and can not stray too far from the fold. For the last 5 years I have been doing volunteer work at a Christian medical Centre run by conservative Christians. I'm the only who is has a faith other than Christian there.

I'm not Catholic because I do not practice. I find it very rude to practice without going to confession first. So Catholic Pagan is inappropriate since I don't practice the Christian faith. I believe that if you are going to believe in something you are to practice as well. You can't "understand completely" another religion unless you have not only walked in their shoes but if you are to support it you should also be walking in their shoes. I can only tell you what I studied and experienced.

As you rightly point out we all have a particular world view that's not going to change in a hurry and I view the world through a Baha'i lens in a similar way that a Christian, Muslim, and Jew views the world through their faith.

That is the problem there. Jesus rose in flesh and spirit. That is a christian belief. You can see it differently because you see it through different eyes; and, that doesn't change what christians believe.

That is like my once being a Bahai (for example), chose to be pagan, then come back with something Bahallauh never talk (say manifestations) because pretending that my religion says otherwise. So I use my religion to clarify the Bahai religion. That is wrong and inappropriate in my opinion.

I don't know why you do it?

I have thought about this a great deal over the years. There are many other explanations for an empty tomb. The Bab, forerunner to Baha'u'llah was executed by a militia of 750 of His own countrymen. They dumped his body so it could not be used as a source of worship for His followers but they retrieved His body anyhow and for 50+ years it was carted around until finally being laid to rest on Mt Carmel Haifa also known as the mountain of Elijah.

Instead of looking at it through the Bab's eyes, since Christians don't believe in him, you can do two things, use objective proof (maybe give proof that his body desecrated in the tomb) or religious proof (maybe proof from scripture that he did not rise regardless the scripture I posted that he did). Any other religious source cannot support your argument.

Yes, that it what many Christians believe.

Yes and Christians are the only ones that can speak the validity of their own faiths not you and not myself. If JW want to throw away the Eucharist because it's pagan, that's their deal. I can see why they'd think the Eucharist is pagan in nature, I disagree with it, and I can't change their views all because mine says opposite. They know more about their beliefs than I do. It wouldn't be right to try and find some type of connection with them all because pretending we both believe in a creator. Each religion has their own culture, traditions, and language that make them severely diferent. Within each religion makes people's beliefs (which is too many to count) severely different.

The Bab and Bahaullah just as JW and the evangalistic christian can't speak for other people's faiths.

In the bible, it does say that jesus rose in flesh and blood. It also says that jesus lived, died, and was resurrected. If jesus didn't rise in the body, you have just broken a part his passion.

What is wrong with the body?
Scripture says when a christian rise in both body and spirit their body would be transformed. What body would be transformed christ had no body?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrianhindes Here is another good scripture. It seems like Corinthians speaks of the bodily resurrection. It also speaks that some people disbelieve in the bodily resurrection and consequently are told they have little faith or their faith is distorted.

1 Corinthians 15:35-44

But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

-If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body-

Everything interconnects. If you, as an ex-christian have literally gone through jesus' Passion, you'd understand that at minimum.

-
My issue with your views, just as with christians, is dictating the truth of someone else's faith by their faith. That's a complete insult to the people who actually practice and still live the faith and know more in continuous growth and practice than I, you, and any other non-christian will know.

 

[David T]

The question is extremely biased and thus it isn't a question but a statement in form of a question. Both possible out comes rely on a mutual assumption.

 

[james bond]

Not all bible scholars of course would agree with a physical resurrection. So I guess if we want to have bible scholars as our authority then we have a problem. I think what you may mean is the authority of bible scholars who believe as you do.

I'm interested to hear the arguments of anyone who has given this serious thought whether it be for or against a physical resurrection. As I've stated in my OP this is a core Christian belief so it is important stuff. There is a lot at stake for us all.

Its not hard to have a negative experience with interfaith discussions on RF. The criteria I have are:
(1) The capacity for reasoned arguments
(2) The authority and authenticity of biblical scripture
(3) Respectful and courteous discussion

>>Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?<<

You asked these questions about Christianity. If someone is seeking an answer as a beginner Christian trying to understand the Resurrection, then Bible scholars are an excellent source such as follows -- gotquestions.org, xenos.org, faithfacts.org, newadvent.org, tektonics.org, biblicalstudies.info, garyhabermas.com, and ntwrightpage.com. The evidence is scriptural, historical, archaeological and more. The view is it happened.

However, it sounds like you are one who thinks that one's beliefs or worldviews determine what Bible scholars to follow in regards to answering your questions. It doesn't work that way and this may answer your last question.

First, faith in God leads one to believe in the existence of God. However, what religion to follow is another matter. The two experiences are intertwined. There is more to it than that, but to get into it is not the point of this post but to answer your last question. What I am saying is before we get to the Resurrection, then one should be interested in Christianity already or else we get into the differing Bible scholars. It means someone providing you their reasoning is not the way to belief in Christianity or belief in God. One has to do their own work, so their faith leads them to God first.

I'll leave you with this short video on Christianity. If you see God in it, then you know He exists and are already on the way. If you do not and want God to reveal Himself to you, then follow the instructions. If you are looking for reasoning, then I suppose it's there, as well.

 

[pearl]

However, it sounds like you are one who thinks that one's beliefs or worldviews determine what Bible scholars to follow in regards to answering your questions.

I think that's true of a lot of us. Just as the rest of us, scholars tend to be progressive, centrist, conservative, critical or apologetic. The progressives accuse the ultra conservatives of fundamentalism and the ultra conservatives accuse the progressives of liberalism and label them heretics. I agree faith is one think and choosing how to express it is another.

 

[Jenny Collins]

It clearly says that he came back and appeared to people. What is it supposed to symbolize or mean, if it were an allegory?