-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
resurrection
- Thread starter olson5256
- Start date
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
how about we start by you explaining why it wasn't necessary.
horizon_mj1
Well-Known Member
I know there will be some that this will offend, but this is how I see it; Maybe he wasn't dead. Without proper instruments that we have today, there is a chance that Jesus was in a comatose state in which allowed enough time for him to be placed in his tomb, then leave upon awakening. Yes there was a large stone placed in front of his tomb, but remember there were mourners outside who would hear if he woke up and pleaded for help. Possibly the claim that he was ressurected for mearly for the protection of Jesus. On the other hand, miracles do happen, just not to everybody, and God can do as wished.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Of course there will be some who will be offended. I'm not one of them since I believe we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, I don't believe anyone could have survived the scourging Jesus did, followed by a crucifixion, especially in the weakened state in which He left Gethsemane. I believe He truly died and was truly resurrected. I just don't understand why olson apparently believes His death was necessary but not His resurrection.
horizon_mj1
Well-Known Member
Without the resurection, wouldn't what Jesus taught about it have been meaningless? In my opinion His resurection was necessary.
Masourga
Member
I remember the first time I heard the story I was wondering (as odd as it may seem) why his resurrection was so anti-climactic. After that it seemed he just left? Why not more good works? Maybe those are questions driven simply by my ignorance on the subject (I've read parts of the Bible, not the entire thing, so my knowledge on some items is limited to what I have been told by others and sermons I have heard). But, with as popular a man as he was, it seemed that once news got around that Jesus had come back there'd be something more in the mix than just him walking off into the sunset. But the stories (again, from my knowledge) just seem to trail off after that.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Everybody that was IN jesus christ on the cross was baptised into death with him. He took us literally to the spiritual grave, and when he was resurrected so was your spirit. Out of spiritual death, into spiritual life. If jesus did not rise from the dead, then we would still be dead in our sins. Still no hope of returning to god. Trapped in darkness. But when he rose from the dead, he translated us out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. We did not have the power to leave the place of spiritual darkness, because we were slaves, of sin, of satan. We had to be bought...a randsom paid. We had to be saved from the darkness. Jesus was our rope of hope. The rope of hope or the ladder of jacob back to the kingdom of god. Jesus wouldnt have been able to translate us out of one kingdom into another if any sin was found in him, any sin that he himself commited. If he was guilty, he could not die for the guilty..he would have been stuck in hell, like the rest of us. But since he was innocent, hell had no hold on him. There was nothing that legally could keep him there. And when he was in hell, he took the keys that satan kept you locked up in there, set you free and made a public display of satan and his company. Now satan has no hold on us. If we listen to him, its because we want to, not because we are his slaves. We are now the slaves of god. Though he calls us his friends.
Earth is the physical representation of the spirtual hell. For every natural thing there is a spiritual copy. When jesus came here to earth, he came to the physical hell, and when he died he went to spiritual hell, the place were our spirits were kept captive. But there is no more spiritual hell, jesus made a spectacle of satan...spiritual hell is empty. There was a type of procession. Earth, the natural copy of hell, is full of satans activity. This is where he has been trapped ever since jesus took the keys of hell away from him. When earth is destroyed there will be nowhere left to run.
He took their authority away from them. Colosians 2: 15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
If the beast has any power its because WE have given it to him. Humans feed him, by giving him power. In revelations the beast is ridden by a women, a prostitute. She is the one controlling the beast, not the other way around. However when the beast has enough power he then turns, ironically on the kings of the earth. And that will be the end of babylon.
Anyway..i have said a lot. Guess im going off topic here.
Heneni
Earth is the physical representation of the spirtual hell. For every natural thing there is a spiritual copy. When jesus came here to earth, he came to the physical hell, and when he died he went to spiritual hell, the place were our spirits were kept captive. But there is no more spiritual hell, jesus made a spectacle of satan...spiritual hell is empty. There was a type of procession. Earth, the natural copy of hell, is full of satans activity. This is where he has been trapped ever since jesus took the keys of hell away from him. When earth is destroyed there will be nowhere left to run.
He took their authority away from them. Colosians 2: 15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
If the beast has any power its because WE have given it to him. Humans feed him, by giving him power. In revelations the beast is ridden by a women, a prostitute. She is the one controlling the beast, not the other way around. However when the beast has enough power he then turns, ironically on the kings of the earth. And that will be the end of babylon.
Anyway..i have said a lot. Guess im going off topic here.
Heneni
The spirit transends the the body. Why was it necessary for his body to be resurected along with his spirit ?
Why? When Buddha died he didn't get resurrected. His words are still just as powerful as they were 500 years before Jesus.
I tend to view the resurrection as a metaphor. (so the early evangelicals would certainly brand me as a heretic 
)
In the opening of the gospel of John, Jesus wasn't originally a separate entity, he was the Word. Literally, when Jesus "was made flesh", God made his words into a human being.
And words are immortal.
)In the opening of the gospel of John, Jesus wasn't originally a separate entity, he was the Word. Literally, when Jesus "was made flesh", God made his words into a human being.
And words are immortal.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
The question we need to ask is, what was Jesus' resurrection necessary for? In the Christian tradition, Jesus' resurrection was necessary to secure "salvation". Part of the very thorny problem is that the word "salvation" remained undefined for a very, very long time. But even so, it seems that the resurrection was somehow pivotal in God's dealing with the world, in turning the corner such that evil would not have the final say in the universe's, or in any particular person's, destiny.
Evolution_Not
Member
The physical body was not resurected. Christ and all who are resurected are given a spiritual body.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
The only thing that conceivably can be resurrected is the body. The spirit never dies so it cannot be reborn. To be resurrected is to come back to life. I would agree with you that the spirit transcends the body. I take this to mean that a spirit can exist as a cognizant entity either outside of a body or inside a body. When a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not cease to exist. The physical body is said to be dead but the spirit continues to live. Resurrection takes place when the spirit re-enters a body, restoring it to life again. This is why it doesn't make sense to me to think of Jesus' spirit to have been resurrected.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Could you define your terms, please? Jesus pointed out to His Apostles that He had a body of flesh and bones. That sounds "physical" to me. The fact that he had a body of flesh and bones, however, did not mean that it was a mortal body, i.e. one that would be subject to disease and death again. It was spiritual in that it was incorruptable and immortal, but it certainly did have a corporeal form. How else would the Apostles have felt the wounds in His hands, feet and side?
Evolution_Not
Member
There have been many who have tried to find error, that it was a myth but have failed. The account is bullet proof. There are books written debunking such challenges but I already have a ton to read. For starters the tomb was guarded by roman soldiers and you didn't want to receive the punishment you would get for incompetence.
Evolution_Not
Member
I agree. Is it the same body?
If his body was not resurected why was his body gone ?
What happends when there is no body left, when a person is cremated or vaporized in an atom bomb ?
Are you saying Jesus did not "die" on the cross ?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It is the same body in that it would be recognizable, as Jesus' was, to those who knew the person. When I see my loved ones again in Heaven, I believe they will be physically recognizable to me. It's a different body in that it has different attributes. It will no longer be subject to death or disease, but will be perfect, glorious and immortal.