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Revisiting Revelation

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Apparently God is completely content to give us a book filled with confusing imagery then sit back and watch the chaos that ensues. He appears not interested at all in actually communicating clearly about the future. This should be clear evidence that this book is the work of humans, not a perfect god.
 

JW Minister

Member
Apparently God is completely content to give us a book filled with confusing imagery then sit back and watch the chaos that ensues. He appears not interested at all in actually communicating clearly about the future. This should be clear evidence that this book is the work of humans, not a perfect god.

Watch this video then afterwards repeat that this book is the work of humans, not a perfect G-D

 

JW Minister

Member
If it's so perfect and reliable, why do Christians argue about what it says?


One main reason is an enemy to truth called in scripture as the Devil ,so if he really does exist and a G-D really exist then would it be reasonable he would confuse religious beliefs to mask the one true religious belief that G-D is using today?
Consider that not all beliefs are acceptable to G-D ,he has always had just one people he dealt with in the past and welcomed others to join them in worship ,would that then be different today from a G-D who doesn't change? So that being the xase then why do we have thousands of different religions all claiming to be the way to G-D

How many religions are in the world today

4,300 religions
There are some 4,300 religions of the world. This is according to Adherents, an independent, non-religiously affiliated organization that monitors the number and size of the world's religions.Oct 6, 2006

Followers of these beliefs;

4,300 religions
There are some 4,300 religions of the world. This is according to Adherents, an independent, non-religiously affiliated organisation that monitors the number and size of the world's religions.Oct 6, 2006

Islam - 1.91 billion. Hinduism - 1.16 billion. Buddhism - 507 million. other - 430 million.

So is it not reasonable to see why "Christians argue about what it says"

How many so called Christian religions are there?

With an estimated 2.42 or 2.3 billion adherents in 2015, Christianity is the largest religious group in the world, and in 2020 there were about 2.6 billion globally.
Includes: Protestantism

There are between 800 million and 1 billion Protestants worldwide, among approximately 2.5 billion Christians.
The among this group of Protesters as it really is called Protestant beliefs :

Two distinct branches of Protestantism grew out of the Reformation. The evangelical churches in Germany and Scandinavia were followers of Martin Luther, and the reformed churches in other countries were followers of John Calvin and Huldreich Zwingli. A third major branch, episcopacy, developed in England.

Then you have different Baptist groups:

Southern Baptists follow a statement of beliefs contained in "The Baptist Faith and Message" as a guide for following Christ's teachings. American Baptists embrace individualized worship not bound by creeds or statements of belief.

I can go one and on breaking down each faction within each belief the point is they all cant be the way to G-D only 1 is the way

Jesus said :


Matthew 7:13-15

New English Translation


13 “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life,and there are few who find it!

What is he saying here about religion?

People have used the teachings of Christ to form a variety of “Christian” denominations as I have brought out here However, the Bible indicates that there is only one true form of Christianity. Consider just three reasons for reaching this conclusion.
[1]
Jesus said that he taught “the truth,” and early Christians referred to their religion as “the truth

John 8:32


32 and you will know the truth,a and the truth will set you free.”


2 Peter 2:2


2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct,*a and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.
2 John 1:4

4 I rejoice very much because I have found some of your children walking in the truth,a just as we received commandment from the Father.

These expressions show that those who promote doctrines that conflict with Jesus’ teachings are not practicing a true form of Christianity.

[2] The Bible teaches that Christians “should all speak in agreement.”
1 Corinthians 1:10


10 Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you

Do all these fractions of denominations speak in agreement ?
NO absolutely not Protestants have killed Catholics because of differences in doctrine.

Of course Islam is not even a Christian religion so they are all eliminated as false
Christian denominations disagree on teachings as basic as what it means to be a Christian. Such denominations cannot all be right,its just common sense.

[3] Jesus prophesied that many would claim to be Christian yet fail to obey his commands and that he would reject such ones

Matthew 7:21-23


21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.a 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord,b did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’c 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew* you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Many Christian religions perform powerful works in Churches we cant deny that but these works are not a sign of true religion,these miracles were used in the early Church as proof yes ,in the name of Jesus they did great wonders right in the Church.
Why are these not a sign now?

The signs are not needed today as proof because back then they didnt have the complete scriptures they only have part of G-Ds word today we have the complete bible they didnt, Paul expressed it this way:

8 Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues,* they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge+ and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline* by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately,* just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.+

So he was saying one day the gifts of the Spirit will be done away with ,when would these gifts cease? he says;

"but when what is complete comes,"

The complete is the complete writings of G-D which they didnt have they didnt have the New Testament back then it was being written ,so they had partial knowledge
the OT is what they had not both the OT and NT we have both

After the gifts cease he said what would remain of the gifts of the Spirit ;

Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.+

At the beginning of this verse is shows love will never fail:

"Love never fails'
This suggest that something in the remaining text will indeed fail but not love.

So where is the power to perform these miracles in these Churches coming from if G-D has ended the gifts of the Spirit?

Jesus said where in the text:

"Lord, Lord,b did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’c 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew'

So the power has to be from the Devil ,but does the Devil have that kind of power?

Snake handling, also called serpent handling, is a religious rite observed in a small number of isolated churches, mostly in the United States,
These snakes are poisonous and if bitten one will die.

They misapply the OT passage:


“They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them.”

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10





9 even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 and with all the deceit of unrighteous

When Moses threw down a rod it became a snake the Devil performed the same thing and their rods became snakes,so yes the Devil has that power.

So to answer your question:


"If it's so perfect and reliable, why do Christians argue about what it says?

Its clear why
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The term "a new heaven and a new earth" the scriptures point to people as the earth and governing as new heavens Ill explain :

Sometimes the scriptures used different expressions to mean the opposite

Genesis 11:1, NASB: "Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words

This is speaking before Jehovah confused the languages at Babel obvisiously the planet cant speak so this referred to people

Jeremiah 22:1-30
O earth,* earth, earth, hear the word of Jehovah.

King James Bible
O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

The planet cant speak or hear logically God was referring to people

There are passages that refer to the world

King James Bible
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Just like he speaks of the earth symbolically to mean people so he has used the world as well

King James Bible
They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

New International Version
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

This is not speaking of the planet or not necessarily the people

“World” can mean (1) humankind as a whole, apart from their moral condition or course of life, (2) the framework of human circumstances into which a person is born and in which he lives (and in this sense it is at times quite similar to the Greek ai·onʹ, “system of things”), or (3) the mass of mankind apart from Jehovah’s approved servants.


The poor translation The King James Version used “world” to render not only koʹsmos but also three other Greek words in some of its renderings of them (ge; ai·onʹ; oi·kou·meʹne) and five different Hebrew words (ʼeʹrets; cheʹdhel; cheʹledh; ʽoh·lamʹ; te·velʹ). This produced a blurring or confused blending of meanings that made it difficult to obtain correct understanding of the scriptures involved. Later translations have served to clear up considerably this confusion.

In one basic sense, then, koʹsmos refers to all humankind. The Scriptures therefore describe the koʹsmos, or world, as being guilty of sin



New Living Translation
Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


So in just these scriptures we see the term earth and world are used to mean people so the words END OF THE WORLD dont mean the earth but logically mean people

Psalm 37:10
New International Version
A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.


King James Bible
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

So this is the end of the world of evil God will rid the earth of wickedness

Just like today we hear the term the Arab world, third world these do not refer to another planet somewhere but logically to people.


What now about NEW HEAVENS?

Does this mean the literal heavens ? Preachers in the Churches will say yes God will burn up the earth and heaven and then create a whole new earth and a new heavens.

What has the earth done for God to burn it up what has heavens done to be destroyed? NOTHING this passage is not meaning the literal earth and heaven as we would be led to believe,consider the passage Preachers use;

King James Bible
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

So here Peter says there was a old earth and old heavens by the world of God


Good News Translation
and it was also by water, the water of the flood, that the old world was destroyed.

Was the world DESTROYED? NO.was not the evil people who were destroyed and not the world or earth? what about the old heavens? were they destroyed?

New Living Translation
And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

The heaven that were then before the flood are the same heaven now the Sun ,Moon planets are the same ones Adam saw so the earth is the same one Noah walked on in fact after the flood he sat foot on the same earth.

So how is heavens used in scripture?

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, states: “Wherever the scene of a prophetic vision is laid, heaven signifies . . . the whole assembly of the ruling powers . . . being over and ruling the subjects, as the natural heaven stands over and rules the earth.

Ephesians 6:12
2 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These HIGH PLACES are the ruling power


New International Version
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

There it is these are the" HEAVENS' are the ones that need to be destroyed or burned up

Ephesians 6:12
against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places

New King James Version
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

The apostle Peter compares the literal heavens and earth (2Pe 3:5) with the symbolic heavens and earth (2Pe 3:7). “The heavens” of verse 7 do not mean Jehovah’s own dwelling place, the place of his throne in the heavens. Jehovah’s heavens cannot be shaken. Neither is “the earth” in the same verse the literal planet earth, for Jehovah says that he has established the earth firmly.


New International Version
He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.

To establish the earth forever then go and burn it up goes against his establishing it in the first place.


Good News Translation
There he built his Temple like his home in heaven; he made it firm like the earth itself, secure for all time.

We read at 2 Peter 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

It means after the end of this evil world are destroyed there will in essence be a new society of people or new world or earth and new heavens as Christ from heaven will be ruling over the new earth

I believe one would have to view it as new since the old one was burned in fire and continents and poles rearranged by the giant earthquake and resulting volcanos.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Apparently God is unable to make things sufficiently clear that people can't argue about them. This is particularly hilarious when we see them squabbling about what's going to happen in the future (or the past, or in the spiritual plane, or....) LOL

I believe things are revealed to those who need to know.
 
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