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Rewarding disobedience in the military!

Do you believe they should still be awarded or praised for disobedience?

  • As a general rule, I'm guessing yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • As a general rule, I'm guessing no

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • As a general rule I firmly believe yes

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • As a general rule, I firmly believe no

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Spiderman

Veteran Member
There have been many occasions in many wars where someone is more brilliant in the military than their superiors, and have taken great risks and heroic actions that saved lives, or accomplished a much greater good for their comrades, than had they been obedient to their superiors.

In a situation like that, where they would have received reward, medals, badges, promotion, or applause, had it not been an act of disobedience, should they still receive the same reward,
medals, badges, promotion, or applause, or should they be chastised for not obeying their superiors.

I have mixed feelings about it, because I have lived at monasteries where people take vows of obedience to the elected superior.

Obedience to the superior is important, because if half of the community says one thing, and the other half says the opposite, someone needs to be the authority who makes the final call, for there to be order, unity , and things operate better that way, if the superior is wise, mature, prudent, filled with the spirit of God, and knows what is best.

But there have been terrible superiors, like the Bishops who got in trouble for moving pedophile priests to other diocese.

Although pedophile priests are much more rare than the media says, it turns out, many sources declare, that evidence and statistics suggest that 2% of Catholic priests are pedophiles....

....Although that adds to a large number of people, and there should not be anything like that, if you know a Catholic priest, the chances of him being a pedophile are much more low than what the media wants us to think.

But how those Bishops handled the sexual abuse scandal of clergy, has completely disenchanted, demoralized, and destroyed any faith I have in a system where there are authority figures that are superiors, and people essentially are required to obey them!

Bishops have authority over a Diocese, where many churches and diocesan or holy order priests in their diocese must obey the Bishop. The Bishops all must obey the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

The military has that in common, where lesser ranking soldiers have to obey superiors and higher ranking officers.

Sometimes the lower ranking soldiers are far more wise, courageous, strong, youthful, passionate, and skilled than their superiors, and have accomplished great deeds in disobedience to superiors.

Countless times in history this has happened in many wars, and I'm just wondering if they should be as a general rule chastised for their disobedience, and denied the awards, purple hearts, badges, promotions, medals, or applause they would be given, had it been in obedience to superiors?

Why or why not?

Choose the answer you lean most towards in the poll
soldier-385480.jpg
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
There have been many occasions in many wars where someone is more brilliant in the military than their superiors, and have taken great risks and heroic actions that saved lives, or accomplished a much greater good for their comrades, than had they been obedient to their superiors.

In a situation like that, where they would have received reward, medals, badges, promotion, or applause, had it not been an act of disobedience, should they still receive the same reward,
medals, badges, promotion, or applause, or should they be chastised for not obeying their superiors.

I have mixed feelings about it, because I have lived at monasteries where people take vows of obedience to the elected superior.

Obedience to the superior is important, because if half of the community says one thing, and the other half says the opposite, someone needs to be the authority who makes the final call, for there to be order, unity , and things operate better that way, if the superior is wise, mature, prudent, filled with the spirit of God, and knows what is best.

But there have been terrible superiors, like the Bishops who got in trouble for moving pedophile priests to other diocese.

Although pedophile priests are much more rare than the media says, it turns out, many sources declare, that evidence and statistics suggest that 2% of Catholic priests are pedophiles....

....Although that adds to a large number of people, and there should not be anything like that, if you know a Catholic priest, the chances of him being a pedophile are much more low than what the media wants us to think.

But how those Bishops handled the sexual abuse scandal of clergy, has completely disenchanted, demoralized, and destroyed any faith I have in a system where there are authority figures that are superiors, and people essentially are required to obey them!

Bishops have authority over a Diocese, where many churches and diocesan or holy order priests in their diocese must obey the Bishop. The Bishops all must obey the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

The military has that in common, where lesser ranking soldiers have to obey superiors and higher ranking officers.

Sometimes the lower ranking soldiers are far more wise, courageous, strong, youthful, passionate, and skilled than their superiors, and have accomplished great deeds in disobedience to superiors.

Countless times in history this has happened in many wars, and I'm just wondering if they should be as a general rule chastised for their disobedience, and denied the awards, purple hearts, badges, promotions, medals, or applause they would be given, had it been in obedience to superiors?

Why or why not?

Choose the answer you lean most towards in the pollView attachment 62458
My personal view is that nobody should get a medal for killing others
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
My personal view is that nobody should get a medal for killing others
So, should Hitler have been given free pass to dominate, invade, and occupy every country he wanted, and exterminate the people he wanted, send millions to death camps, and nobody kill the necessary quantity of Nazis, not shoot their Luftwaffe planes down that were bombing innocent civilians in Britain and elsewhere, not blow up their tanks, artillery, and vehicles that fire explosives?

I love peace and hate violence, but my hat goes off to, and my love is for the brave men and women who laid down their lives, sacrificed, suffered, risked everything, and took out the necessary quantity of Nazi soldiers, who conquered France, austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, some of Scandinavia, much of Eastern Europe, and conquered parts of Russia with violent, brutal, militant aggression and hatred! I love those who stopped his conquests, occupations, siezure of land, and exterminations!

There was a time where militant atheist communists, dominated a big chunk of the world, they were causing red revolutions and violence, and they were torturing and killing people like yourself, just for believing in God, trying to efface God from the hearts of every man, woman, and child, to create a world full of atheists.

Communism was actually the reason world war 2 started, was because people were so scared of red revolutions and Communists, (the greatest killing machine earth has ever seen, the governments with the highest kill counts). So scared were people of Communism, that they elected Hitler, largely based off of how Anticommunist he was!

The only thing that prevented militant atheist communists from accomplishing these goals, a world where Religion is oppressed, persecuted, and everyone is brainwashed with atheist mentality, is the people who resisted them with military force, or had a military power and presence in this world that was a threat to militant atheist communist expansion, like the USA and western Europe!

I love peace! I hate violence! But self defense to defend women, children, and innocent civilians, against brutal conquerors, Empires, regimes , and Dictatorships that allow no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, and ban virtuous living, and brainwash people to love evil, and be slaves to evil regimes, only military force has often been able to save large chunks of the world from such tyrants!

And many heroes laid down their lives, were permanently wounded, paralyzed, disfigured, or made great heroic sacrifices, and took courageous risks to stop such regimes, and those heroes deserve their awards and praise, is my firm conviction!
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
So, should Hitler have been given free pass to dominate, invade, and occupy every country he wanted, and exterminate the people he wanted, send millions to death camps, and nobody kill the necessary quantity of Nazis, not shoot their Luftwaffe planes down that were bombing innocent civilians in Britain and elsewhere, not blow up their tanks, artillery, and vehicles that fire explosives?

I love peace and hate violence, but my hat goes off to, and my love is for the brave men and women who laid down their lives, sacrificed, suffered, risked everything, and took out the necessary quantity of Nazi soldiers, who conquered France, austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, some of Scandinavia, much of Eastern Europe, and conquered parts of Russia with violent, brutal, militant aggression and hatred!

There was a time where militant atheist communists, dominated a big chunk of the world, they were causing red revolutions and violence, and they were torturing and killing people like yourself, just for believing in God, trying to efface God from the hearts of every man, woman, and child, to create a world full of atheists.

Communism was actually the reason world war 2 started, was because people were so scared of red revolutions and Communists, (the greatest killing machine earth has ever seen, the governments with the highest kill counts). So scared were people of Communism, that they elected Hitler, largely based off of how Anticommunist he was!

The only thing that prevented militant atheist communists from accomplishing these goals, a world where Religion is oppressed, persecuted, and everyone is brainwashed with atheist mentality, is the people who resisted them with military force, or had a military power and presence in this world that was a threat to militant atheist communist expansion, like the USA and western Europe!

I love peace! I hate violence! But self defense to defend women, children, and innocent civilians, against brutal conquerors, Empires, regimes , and Dictatorships that allow no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, and ban virtuous living, and brainwash people to love evil, and be slaves to evil regimes, only military force has often been able to save large chunks of the world from such tyrants!

And many heroes laid down their lives, were permanently wounded, paralyzed, disfigured, or made great heroic sacrifices, and took courageous risks to stop such regimes, and those heroes deserve their awards and praise, is my firm conviction!
To answer the first part of your question, in my view they should have stopped Hitler before he got the power, example of today is Putin, he should have been stopped politically before he was able to use weapons.

For me, as a pasifist i do not believe in voilence or weapons, nor in giving medato people who kill other people.

But I only speak for my own view. Ithers will see it different than I do.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
To answer the first part of your question, in my view they should have stopped Hitler before he got the power, example of today is Putin, he should have been stopped politically before he was able to use weapons.

For me, as a pasifist i do not believe in voilence or weapons, nor in giving medato people who kill other people.

But I only speak for my own view. Ithers will see it different than I do.
I would prefer the whole world was pacifist and non aggressive! :)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
To answer the first part of your question, in my view they should have stopped Hitler before he got the power, example of today is Putin, he should have been stopped politically before he was able to use weapons.

For me, as a pasifist i do not believe in voilence or weapons, nor in giving medato people who kill other people.

But I only speak for my own view. Ithers will see it different than I do.
So your OK with an enemy invader destroying your country.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
There have been many occasions in many wars where someone is more brilliant in the military than their superiors, and have taken great risks and heroic actions that saved lives, or accomplished a much greater good for their comrades, than had they been obedient to their superiors.

In a situation like that, where they would have received reward, medals, badges, promotion, or applause, had it not been an act of disobedience, should they still receive the same reward,
medals, badges, promotion, or applause, or should they be chastised for not obeying their superiors.

I have mixed feelings about it, because I have lived at monasteries where people take vows of obedience to the elected superior.

Obedience to the superior is important, because if half of the community says one thing, and the other half says the opposite, someone needs to be the authority who makes the final call, for there to be order, unity , and things operate better that way, if the superior is wise, mature, prudent, filled with the spirit of God, and knows what is best.

But there have been terrible superiors, like the Bishops who got in trouble for moving pedophile priests to other diocese.

Although pedophile priests are much more rare than the media says, it turns out, many sources declare, that evidence and statistics suggest that 2% of Catholic priests are pedophiles....

....Although that adds to a large number of people, and there should not be anything like that, if you know a Catholic priest, the chances of him being a pedophile are much more low than what the media wants us to think.

But how those Bishops handled the sexual abuse scandal of clergy, has completely disenchanted, demoralized, and destroyed any faith I have in a system where there are authority figures that are superiors, and people essentially are required to obey them!

Bishops have authority over a Diocese, where many churches and diocesan or holy order priests in their diocese must obey the Bishop. The Bishops all must obey the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

The military has that in common, where lesser ranking soldiers have to obey superiors and higher ranking officers.

Sometimes the lower ranking soldiers are far more wise, courageous, strong, youthful, passionate, and skilled than their superiors, and have accomplished great deeds in disobedience to superiors.

Countless times in history this has happened in many wars, and I'm just wondering if they should be as a general rule chastised for their disobedience, and denied the awards, purple hearts, badges, promotions, medals, or applause they would be given, had it been in obedience to superiors?

Why or why not?

Choose the answer you lean most towards in the pollView attachment 62458
I hear you. It's a good point that even though Catholic priest pedophilia is rare, it should have been more powerfully addressed and more perpetrators defrocked, and promptly, and already very long ago, back in the 1970s, 80s, 90s.

I was also thinking about the analogy to military hierarchy, and...well, it brings to mind this:

25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you.
...(!)...
Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

(full context is the full passage, verses 20-28 Matthew 20 NIV
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If the war in Ukraine is the start of WW3 yes Putin is a problem.

But even i strongly disagree with his politics and military, does not mean I personally see them as my enemy
One way to have enemies is for them to see you as one.
You needn't see them as such.

Just a different perspective.
 
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