RF Every day sexism

[Penumbra]

-When I started an engineering job three years ago, male co-workers were discussing details of my appearance without thinking I heard them, and rated me on a scale of 1-10.

-There was a guy in high school that sexually assaulted me, but at the time I didn't consider it a sexual assault, even though it unambiguously was. Sometimes I forget about it, but then I'm like, "oh yeah, that guy..." What he did was really screwed up.

-My uncle doesn't think women should be allowed to vote.

 

[Revoltingest]

-When I started an engineering job three years ago, male co-workers were discussing details of my appearance without thinking I heard them, and rated me on a scale of 1-10.

Well......
What's your score?

-There was a guy in high school that sexually assaulted me, but at the time I didn't consider it a sexual assault, even though it unambiguously was. Sometimes I forget about it, but then I'm like, "oh yeah, that guy..." What he did was really screwed up.

Time grants us a different perspective, eh?
Surprising it could be, but I was much more of a jerk several decades ago.

 

[Penumbra]

Well......
What's your score?

There was more than one, they (three of them) each gave a score, and one of them gave two scores (an "objective score" and his "subjective score" based on his preferences, according to him. :sarcastic)

They weren't low scores but that's not the point. The point is that I had to work on a system with a guy that described his opinions of my face, legs, breasts, even smaller details, and gave me a 1-10 score.

Time grants us a different perspective, eh?

I think at the time it was just shock and social pressure which made me not consider it to be a huge deal. As soon as hours later, when I was going through it in my head, it was clearly assault. It's just that at the time, it happened in front of other people, so I kind of brushed it off rather than to treat it as an assault. I decided if he does it to me again I'd hit him. Hard.

I dunno, it never really had a long-term impact on me, I got over it pretty quick, and sort of forget about it if I'm not actively remembering it. Like someone will describe an event and I'll be like, "Well fortunately I never had that happen" and then a little while later I'm like, "oh yeah, that time..."

Surprising it could be, but I was much more of a jerk several decades ago.

Like how?

 

[Revoltingest]

There was more than one, they (three of them) each gave a score, and one of them gave two scores (an "objective score" and his "subjective score" based on his preferences, according to him. :sarcastic)
They weren't low scores but that's not the point. The point is that I had to work on a system with a guy that described his opinions of my face, legs, breasts, even smaller details, and gave me a 1-10 score.

Of course, you know I jest.

I think at the time it was just shock and social pressure which made me not consider it to be a huge deal. As soon as hours later, when I was going through it in my head, it was clearly assault. It's just that at the time, it happened in front of other people, so I kind of brushed it off rather than to treat it as an assault. I decided if he does it to me again I'd hit him. Hard.

Good!

Like how?

I recall an incident from the mid-70s at a company where an older male engineer was describing the gigantic hooters of a fresh new female engineer. He was talking to someone in front of him, & held his hands out to here (imagine me holding my hands out to here). He then turned around, still holding out his hands, & realized that she was staring at him aghast. I thought it was hilarious. Nowadays, I'd be aghast too.

 

[DallasApple]

I'm not even going to go over again how I experienced blatant sexism (every day) and sexual harassment. I would have to sit down and just write about it for two days (non stop) to describe it all.(each incidence).Oh but I resent the fact someone said "maybe they didn't consider it harassment"(what happened to you Horrable) and someone else said how they had mainly avoided it by not dressing in a manner that provoked it.

The bottom line is??? My presence in general public is not an INVITATION for SEXUAL comments .The fact that I APPEAR female is not a mans entitlement to bark whatever **** that come to his feeble primitive mind.IF he thinks how I am dressed is an "invitation"?Then don't call me a b*** when he is SORELY mistaken.When I tell him to take his 1/2 centimeter wang and go sit down and shut up and fondle it.

IF I want sexual attention? I will flat out ask for it .Then you can decide.

 

[Badran]

I have stories from both sides of the issue. The following is an old one where i was guilty.

When i was like 16 or 17 and little bit before and after that, i used to hang around lots of different guys from school. We used to go out in large groups, and we'd do the dumbest things we could think of. I did a lot of pathetic things in that period.

One phase we had at some point was to slap girls on their butts while driving through the city. Whenever one of the guys slapped a girl, i'd cringe. While i didn't reflect much on how the girls would feel, and while i didn't particularly view it as a big deal at the time, i felt it was uncalled for. I usually made jokes about how we're losers and that what we're doing is pathetic, but never objected seriously. My personal codes then were very low in regards to what harm i would allow to bring on myself, but were considerably higher than that when it came to others. I was usually the guy who never instigated things, but reveled in harming others when they instigated things with me.

Anyway, i never volunteered to do it, but one time everybody egged me to, so i got my upper body out the window and got ready. When it was time to do it, i froze and didn't do it. In attempt to diffuse the certain backlash of jokes from everyone i was with, i slapped a guy instead. He was dressed in a suit and looked real sharp, and was with another guy and a girl. He laughed when i did it. It worked in diffusing any possible backlash.

Besides the obvious elements about why this was wrong, there were also other elements. Like how everyone would avoid slapping a girl if she was dressed modestly according to the common standards, but would totally get excited and do it if it was a girl that dressed less than so. Also, as far as i recall, almost everyone seemed to feel guilty about it in some way or another, yet not once did anyone object or advice the others to refrain from doing this, me included.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I'm not even going to go over again how I experienced blatant sexism (every day) and sexual harassment. I would have to sit down and just write about it for two days (non stop) to describe it all.(each incidence).Oh but I resent the fact someone said "maybe they didn't consider it harassment"(what happened to you Horrable) and someone else said how they had mainly avoided it by not dressing in a manner that provoked it.

The bottom line is??? My presence in general public is not an INVITATION for SEXUAL comments .The fact that I APPEAR female is not a mans entitlement to bark whatever **** that come to his feeble primitive mind.IF he thinks how I am dressed is an "invitation"?Then don't call me a b*** when he is SORELY mistaken.When I tell him to take his 1/2 centimeter wang and go sit down and shut up and fondle it.

IF I want sexual attention? I will flat out ask for it .Then you can decide.

I was working with this guy, and we saw this woman who was getting holla'd at by this group of guys, and the guy that I was with was saying that she is a hoe (I'm presuming because of what she looked liked) and that how she thinks that what the group of guys did was positive attention but what she doesn't realise is that it isn't. And I'm like, how do you know she thinks it's positive attention!? You asked her did you?
A guy gets all that, even what a woman is thinking just from what she looks like? It's ridiculous.

 

[beenie]

Well on a little different scale...

I am a mother of six. That alone raises eyebrows, but when people realize I'm not only a mother of six, but that they are all girls, then the ridiculous comments begin.

"Your poor husband"
"Your husband must be disappointed" (BIO 101 anyone?)
"Number 7 will be a boy"
"Kept trying (and failed) to get that boy, eh"
"You must have really wanted the boy to keep trying six times!"

etc., etc.,

Of course then I get:

"Wait til they all hit puberty"
"I hope you have stock in feminine products!"
"You know you'll all cycle together."
"Your husband must run away during 'that time'"

These comments are all made in jest, but had I had six boys, the "atta boy" and "your husband is a MAN" comments would be the norm.

 

[DallasApple]

These comments are all made in jest, but had I had six boys, the "atta boy" and "your husband is a MAN" comments would be the norm.

And you would be a worthy queen.

 

[Penumbra]

I have stories from both sides of the issue. The following is an old one where i was guilty.

When i was like 16 or 17 and little bit before and after that, i used to hang around lots of different guys from school. We used to go out in large groups, and we'd do the dumbest things we could think of. I did a lot of pathetic things in that period.

One phase we had at some point was to slap girls on their butts while driving through the city. Whenever one of the guys slapped a girl, i'd cringe. While i didn't reflect much on how the girls would feel, and while i didn't particularly view it as a big deal at the time, i felt it was uncalled for. I usually made jokes about how we're losers and that what we're doing is pathetic, but never objected seriously. My personal codes then were very low in regards to what harm i would allow to bring on myself, but were considerably higher than that when it came to others. I was usually the guy who never instigated things, but reveled in harming others when they instigated things with me.

Anyway, i never volunteered to do it, but one time everybody egged me to, so i got my upper body out the window and got ready. When it was time to do it, i froze and didn't do it. In attempt to diffuse the certain backlash of jokes from everyone i was with, i slapped a guy instead. He was dressed in a suit and looked real sharp, and was with another guy and a girl. He laughed when i did it. It worked in diffusing any possible backlash.

Besides the obvious elements about why this was wrong, there were also other elements. Like how everyone would avoid slapping a girl if she was dressed modestly according to the common standards, but would totally get excited and do it if it was a girl that dressed less than so. Also, as far as i recall, almost everyone seemed to feel guilty about it in some way or another, yet not once did anyone object or advice the others to refrain from doing this, me included.

Thanks for sharing that.

That's very interesting, how people felt guilty but apparently fueled each other's activities, nobody wanting to back down in front of others.

It's also sad that the activities were basically policing, in an asymmetrical way, social standards of modesty.

 

[Penumbra]

Well on a little different scale...

I am a mother of six. That alone raises eyebrows, but when people realize I'm not only a mother of six, but that they are all girls, then the ridiculous comments begin.

"Your poor husband"
"Your husband must be disappointed" (BIO 101 anyone?)
"Number 7 will be a boy"
"Kept trying (and failed) to get that boy, eh"
"You must have really wanted the boy to keep trying six times!"

etc., etc.,

Of course then I get:

"Wait til they all hit puberty"
"I hope you have stock in feminine products!"
"You know you'll all cycle together."
"Your husband must run away during 'that time'"

These comments are all made in jest, but had I had six boys, the "atta boy" and "your husband is a MAN" comments would be the norm.

Yeah, that kind of attitude annoys me. I remember posting a thread once about a survey that shows Americans prefer having boys over girls.

"The Gallup polling agency asked a random sample of 1,020 American adults whether they'd prefer to have a girl or a boy if they could only chose one. Forty percent said they'd pick a boy, 28 percent said they would want a girl, and the rest didn't mind either way or weren't sure."

I find this article fairly sad, but not unexpected. I don't see why people would have a preference these days.

Some notes from the survey that I am not surprised about:

-It was men who cause the preference for boys. Women are less likely to have a preference, and for those that do, the percentage that prefer a boy roughly correspond to the percentage that prefer a girl. Men, on the other hand, are more likely to have a preference, and significantly more likely to prefer a boy.

-People with a postgraduate education are statistically balanced when it comes to preferences, but those with a high school education or lower are more likely to prefer a boy.

Things that did surprise me:

-Younger people (under 30) are more likely to prefer a boy, and the statistical preference dwindles with age.

-The results are statistically very similar to this sort of survey from 1941. There hasn't been much change.

Thoughts?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Well on a little different scale...

I am a mother of six. That alone raises eyebrows, but when people realize I'm not only a mother of six, but that they are all girls, then the ridiculous comments begin.

"Your poor husband"
"Your husband must be disappointed" (BIO 101 anyone?)
"Number 7 will be a boy"
"Kept trying (and failed) to get that boy, eh"
"You must have really wanted the boy to keep trying six times!"

etc., etc.,

Of course then I get:

"Wait til they all hit puberty"
"I hope you have stock in feminine products!"
"You know you'll all cycle together."
"Your husband must run away during 'that time'"

These comments are all made in jest, but had I had six boys, the "atta boy" and "your husband is a MAN" comments would be the norm.

My mum is a mother of 5 girls and she would get "five girls! What? No boys!?"
And it's like yeah and we don't want no boys what you think about that!?
(actually quite glad I didn't have brothers I'm not even going to lie.)

 

[DallasApple]

I had all boys..and after that was "secured" then the pressure to have a girl started.

 

[Penumbra]

If I had kids, I'd probably want one girl and one boy, if I had the power to choose.

 

[Penumbra]

I was once at a conference not too long ago with local entrepreneurs. I got into a conversation with a couple of men about business. One of them said to me, "I really hope you succeed with your studio, because let's face it. Women owners don't make it very far since they're so emotional and all."

:ulls hair out::

 

[Debater Slayer]

I had a teacher who was telling a classmate how some women get all cautious when someone accidentally bumps into them because they think that might have been done deliberately to harass them. Then he mentioned a woman who had been wearing "inappropriate" clothes—three quarter pants, that is—that he saw someone bump into. He said she became extremely cautious because of that.

He then proceeded to say that she "deserved it" because she was "a *****" for dressing like that, and that she wouldn't have dressed that way if she hadn't wanted anyone to harass her.

I never looked at him the same way after hearing him say that, as I used to respect him a lot.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yeah, that kind of attitude annoys me. I remember posting a thread once about a survey that shows Americans prefer having boys over girls.

To be fair, if the results were that they preferred girls, would it really be any better?

 

[Penumbra]

To be fair, if the results were that they preferred girls, would it really be any better?

No, that would be just as bad. It's just sad in my view that people have a preference for one gender over the other. The interesting thing about those studies were that women didn't really have much of a preference, but men statistically preferred boys.

 

[Aquitaine]

No, that would be just as bad. It's just sad in my view that people have a preference for one gender over the other. The interesting thing about those studies were that women didn't really have much of a preference, but men statistically preferred boys.

Probably stems from that age-old idea of "Oh I can teach him to play football and build stuff".

Or, it could stem from the fact that Males have typically had greater opportunites in life, and chances to succeed and generate income (A Man's world etc). I remember watching a short documentary on how in rural China boys are vastly favoured over girls, one of the villagers said something along the lines of "All girls want to do is wear a dress and look pretty."

The assumption being that Males will be more likely to bring home $$$ and be more "useful".

As a side note, I don't want kids, but if I did I'd rather have girls.

EDIT: Or it may be due to some Men "not knowing what to do with a daughter" y'know - because apparently Females are this uber-mystical complex alien race that we Males will never understand.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No, that would be just as bad. It's just sad in my view that people have a preference for one gender over the other. The interesting thing about those studies were that women didn't really have much of a preference, but men statistically preferred boys.

When I was pregnant, and it was discovered that I was having a boy, family members rejoiced loudly, hugged each other, and hugged me as if I was giving them the best gift ever.

When I was pregnant with my daughter, family members looked at my husband and said, "Uh oh, be careful. You'll have TWO hormonal people you'll have to deal with."

As if testosterone isn't a hormone.