RF Rules & Illegal Abortions

[Revoltingest]

If we advocate assisting pregnant mothers seeking abortions in other
states, is this a rule violation because it's a crime in some states?
It might even become a federal crime...or already be one, depending
upon how SCOTUS rules on interpreting the Mann Act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
Excerpted...
Several national antiabortion groups and their allies in Republican-led state legislatures are advancing plans to stop people in states where abortion is banned from seeking the procedure elsewhere, according to people involved in the discussions.

Mann Act - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In its original form the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking...


SCOTUS has upheld the constitutionality of the Mann Act many times.
So it gives Congress the ability to prosecute people for transporting
women across state lines for "immoral purposes", which abortion is
being treated as in many states. Congress has amended the act
to focus upon prostitution, but the original form is far broader.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That is an important and chilling observation.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Not that I've posted about that specifically, but I guess I'll just stop posting the topic in general. I will however, probably continue to post about how I think we are overpopulating the earth, as that seems like a broader theme.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Mann Act - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In its original form the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking...

It probably should be noted that the Wikipedia entry continues:

It was one of several acts of protective legislation aimed at moral reform during the Progressive Era. In practice, its ambiguous language about "immorality" resulted in it being used to criminalize even consensual sexual behavior between adults.[1] It was amended by Congress in 1978 and again in 1986 to limit its application to transport for the purpose of prostitution or other illegal sexual acts.[2] [JS - emphasis added]​

It seems unlikely that abortion procures could fall under that category.

 

[ChristineM]

Hmm, i think RF basis its rules on Californian and Federal law.

 

[Revoltingest]

It probably should be noted that the Wikipedia entry continues:

It was one of several acts of protective legislation aimed at moral reform during the Progressive Era. In practice, its ambiguous language about "immorality" resulted in it being used to criminalize even consensual sexual behavior between adults.[1] It was amended by Congress in 1978 and again in 1986 to limit its application to transport for the purpose of prostitution or other illegal sexual acts.[2] [JS - emphasis added]​

It seems unlikely that abortion procures could fall under that category.

I considered that. But "other illegal sexual acts" strikes me
as so broad as to invite mischief. This SCOTUS seems prone
to novel & aggressive interpretations of law & the Constitution.
And as we saw in the other link, lawmakers plan to illegalize
seeking abortion in other states.

The upshot here is a strong possibility that ferrying women
across state lines for abortions is (or will soon be) illegal.
Does advocating an underground railroad violate the rules?
If not now, I'm concerned that it soon might.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is probably prudent for all of us in the U.S. to monitor our formulations on social media.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I considered that. But "other illegal sexual acts" strikes me
as so broad as to invite mischief. This SCOTUS seems prone
to novel & aggressive interpretations of law & the Constitution.
And as we saw in the other link, lawmakers plan to illegalize
seeking abortion in other states.

The upshot here is a strong possibility that ferrying women
across state lines for abortions is (or will soon be) illegal.
Does advocating an underground railroad violate the rules?
If not now, I'm concerned that it soon might.

Why would we be allowed to advocate for something illegal? We can't even discuss other things that go against recommendations by the government.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would we be allowed to advocate for something illegal? We can't even discuss other things that go against recommendations by the government.

I have an opinion about that, but to
air it would likely be a violation. So
I address the rule...not the motivation.

 

[fantome profane]

It is probably prudent for all of us in the U.S. to monitor our formulations on social media.

Luckily some of us are not in the U.S.

If that makes a difference.

 

[MikeF]

Certainly a future Republican controlled house and senate with a Republican President could further amend the Mann Act to include the transport of women across state lines to seek abortion. Such change would be unchallengeable under the current Supreme Court.

 

[Secret Chief]

Luckily some of us are not in the U.S.

If that makes a difference.

In the interests of fairness and equal treatment I imagine American secret service staff will start abducting non-Americans so that they can be put on trial in the land of the free, duly charged with promoting murder.

 

[Secret Chief]

If we advocate assisting pregnant mothers seeking abortions in other
states, is this a rule violation because it's a crime in some states?
It might even become a federal crime...or already be one, depending
upon how SCOTUS rules on interpreting the Mann Act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
Excerpted...
Several national antiabortion groups and their allies in Republican-led state legislatures are advancing plans to stop people in states where abortion is banned from seeking the procedure elsewhere, according to people involved in the discussions.

Mann Act - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In its original form the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking...


SCOTUS has upheld the constitutionality of the Mann Act many times.
So it gives Congress the ability to prosecute people for transporting
women across state lines for "immoral purposes", which abortion is
being treated as in many states. Congress has amended the act
to focus upon prostitution, but the original form is far broader.

I thought Americans believe that freedom of expression is as important as guns?

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought Americans believe that freedom of expression is as important as guns?

Different people value different things.
But this thread is about expressing
things on RF.

 

[Secret Chief]

Different people value different things.
But this thread is about expressing
things on RF.

Ok, so you can be the test case. If you suddenly stop posting we'll know you've been incarcerated and post accordingly.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If we advocate assisting pregnant mothers seeking abortions in other
states, is this a rule violation because it's a crime in some states?
It might even become a federal crime...or already be one, depending
upon how SCOTUS rules on interpreting the Mann Act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
Excerpted...
Several national antiabortion groups and their allies in Republican-led state legislatures are advancing plans to stop people in states where abortion is banned from seeking the procedure elsewhere, according to people involved in the discussions.

Mann Act - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In its original form the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking...


SCOTUS has upheld the constitutionality of the Mann Act many times.
So it gives Congress the ability to prosecute people for transporting
women across state lines for "immoral purposes", which abortion is
being treated as in many states. Congress has amended the act
to focus upon prostitution, but the original form is far broader.

I don't see any of that as preventing discussion about whether (or why) abortion should or should not be legal or illegal, as long as one does not advocate doing anything that might be considered illegal.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ok, so you can be the test case. If you suddenly stop posting we'll know you've been incarcerated and post accordingly.

I don't recall if I've advocated it or not already.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see any of that as preventing discussion about whether (or why) abortion should or should not be legal or illegal, as long as one does not advocate doing anything that might be considered illegal.

What about advocating an undergound railroad?

 

[Sand Dancer]

It probably should be noted that the Wikipedia entry continues:

It was one of several acts of protective legislation aimed at moral reform during the Progressive Era. In practice, its ambiguous language about "immorality" resulted in it being used to criminalize even consensual sexual behavior between adults.[1] It was amended by Congress in 1978 and again in 1986 to limit its application to transport for the purpose of prostitution or other illegal sexual acts.[2] [JS - emphasis added]​

It seems unlikely that abortion procures could fall under that category.

I am glad the law is specific, but they could try to change it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If we advocate assisting pregnant mothers seeking abortions in other
states, is this a rule violation because it's a crime in some states?
It might even become a federal crime...or already be one, depending
upon how SCOTUS rules on interpreting the Mann Act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
Excerpted...
Several national antiabortion groups and their allies in Republican-led state legislatures are advancing plans to stop people in states where abortion is banned from seeking the procedure elsewhere, according to people involved in the discussions.

Mann Act - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In its original form the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking...


SCOTUS has upheld the constitutionality of the Mann Act many times.
So it gives Congress the ability to prosecute people for transporting
women across state lines for "immoral purposes", which abortion is
being treated as in many states. Congress has amended the act
to focus upon prostitution, but the original form is far broader.

As long as no one has any sex with the fetus we are golden