Richard Dawkins Facepalms at Deepak Chopra

[Runewolf1973]

So there is the appearance of 'interacting', without actually 'interacting'. It's what is called 'maya' and 'lila'.

Effortless doing. Effortless interaction.

 

[godnotgod]

The same as consciousness. Mind (thinking, sensing, feeling) is interaction.

No. Consciousness is before mind. Consciousness is The Changeless. It is no-mind. Mind is thinking; consciousness is seeing; mind is existence in time and space; consciousness is Being and not in time or space. Hence:

'Before Abraham was, I Am'

 

[godnotgod]

Effortless doing. Effortless interaction.

Sure. But that is because there is no 'do-er'; no 'inter-acter'.

When you awaken from a dream in which you were the hero; the man of action, was there ever a hero in action? No. Was there ever any action at all?

 

[Runewolf1973]

No. Consciousness is before mind. Consciousness is The Changeless. It is no-mind. Mind is thinking; consciousness is seeing; mind is existence in time and space; consciousness is Being and not in time or space. Hence:

'Before Abraham was, I Am'

Consciousness is interacting. Seeing is interacting. Thinking is interacting. Being is interacting.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sure. But that is because there is no 'do-er'; no 'inter-acter'.

When you awaken from a dream in which you were the hero; the man of action, was there ever a hero in action? No. Was there ever any action at all?

The universe is the do-er which you even stated in a previous post.

 

[godnotgod]

Consciousness is interacting. Seeing is interacting. Thinking is interacting. Being is interacting.

But Consciousness is The Absolute; The Changeless There exists no relative 'other' with which it can 'interact' with.

 

[godnotgod]

The universe is the do-er which you even stated in a previous post.

It is the illusion of 'doing' Everything you see and hear in the phenomenal world is the illusion of something 'doing'. The Absolute is playing all the 'parts' of the universe, pretending to be those 'parts' and 'interacting' with all the other 'parts'.

 

[Runewolf1973]

But Consciousness is The Absolute; The Changeless There exists no relative 'other' with which it can 'interact' with.

A different world view then I suppose, but not mine. I don't view anything as "conscious", only interactive.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is the illusion of 'doing' Everything you see and hear in the phenomenal world is the illusion of something 'doing'. The Absolute is playing all the 'parts' of the universe, pretending to be those 'parts' and 'interacting' with all the other 'parts'.

The Absolute you speak of is neither playing or pretending to be or do anything. Absolute nothingness can do nothing. If that Absolute is generating those illusions somehow, then it is necessarily interacting (playing or pretending) in some way to bring them about. You still have yet to explain exactly how nothingness brings about all these higher illusions.

 

[godnotgod]

A different world view then I suppose, but not mine. I don't view anything as "conscious", only interactive.

In order for something to be 'interactive', wouldn't it first have to have recognition of that with which it is interacting?

 

[godnotgod]

The Absolute you speak of is neither playing or pretending to be or do anything. Absolute nothingness can do nothing. If that Absolute is generating those illusions somehow, then it is necessarily interacting (playing or pretending) in some way to bring them about. You still have yet to explain exactly how nothingness brings about all these higher illusions.

Consciousness is the source. It is non-material Nothingness. There is no interaction because nothing is real. All forms have no self-nature; they arise out of the formless ocean of Pure Consciousness, The Unified Field.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Consciousness is the source. It is non-material Nothingness. There is no interaction because nothing is real. All forms have no self-nature; they arise out of the formless ocean of Pure Consciousness, The Unified Field.

Nothing arises out of nothing. Nothing is not conscious, it is nothing. Consciousness IS something, it is a form of interaction. The "arising" of anything is interaction. The Unified Field is the unification of all the known fundamental forces, interactions and elementary particles into a singular, all-encompassing "field" or theory. The Unified Field is neither nothingness, nor is it "Pure Consciousness".

 

[Runewolf1973]

So explain again how these forms or illusions appear out of nothingness if there is no "arising", "playing", "pretending", "doing", "becoming", or any other action taking place.

 

[Runewolf1973]

In order for something to be 'interactive', wouldn't it first have to have recognition of that with which it is interacting?

Everything is already connected like links on a chain, so there is no need for conscious recognition. Does one link need to be conscious of the other link in order for it to do its job? No, because they are already connected as one. Besides, recognition is just another form of interaction.

 

[godnotgod]

Nothing arises out of nothing.

That's correct. Everything is actually nothing, since it's mass is totally virtual in nature, as demonstrated by Quantum Mechanics. That means that 'reality', and all its 'interactions', are also virtual in nature. And so we can say 'Everything comes out of Nothing'.

 

[godnotgod]

Everything is already connected like links on a chain, so there is no need for conscious recognition. Does one link need to be conscious of the other link in order for it to do its job? No, because they are already connected as one. Besides, recognition is just another form of interaction.

There are no parts that are interconnected. What we call 'parts' are simply outcroppings of the One, just as waves are swells on the totality of the ocean. Because the One is already One and complete, there is nothing to be gained from interaction. Interaction implies a change in order to achieve some end, but the end is already done. So anything you see as changing to become something else is a complete illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

So explain again how these forms or illusions appear out of nothingness if there is no "arising", "playing", "pretending", "doing", "becoming", or any other action taking place.

Illusions are not interactions; they are illusions. All the 'interactions' of this world are shadows that point to that which is real: The Changeless. As long as you continue to attach yourself to change and becoming, you will be caught in the grip of maya. When you see that change and becoming are illusory, you will free yourself from its grip.

 

[Runewolf1973]

There are no parts that are interconnected. What we call 'parts' are simply outcroppings of the One, just as waves are swells on the totality of the ocean. Because the One is already One and complete, there is nothing to be gained from interaction. Interaction implies a change in order to achieve some end, but the end is already done. So anything you see as changing to become something else is a complete illusion.

Through interaction we have lots to gain, most notably those experiences we call life and consciousness, There is nothing to be gained from nothingness.

 

[Runewolf1973]

There are no parts that are interconnected. What we call 'parts' are simply outcroppings of the One, just as waves are swells on the totality of the ocean. Because the One is already One and complete, there is nothing to be gained from interaction. Interaction implies a change in order to achieve some end, but the end is already done. So anything you see as changing to become something else is a complete illusion.

Interaction implies oneness and connectivity

 

[Runewolf1973]

Illusions are not interactions; they are illusions. All the 'interactions' of this world are shadows that point to that which is real: The Changeless. As long as you continue to attach yourself to change and becoming, you will be caught in the grip of maya. When you see that change and becoming are illusory, you will free yourself from its grip.

What is the evidence for that changeless?