Richard Dawkins Facepalms at Deepak Chopra

[Rick O'Shez]

Hi Norman,
surely consciousness is knowing you exist primarily, isn't it?

There are different ideas about what consciousness is, personally I view it as the basic function of awareness.
We are still struggling to understand what human consciousness is, so making claims about "universal consciousness" is pointless and silly. We really have no idea what consciousness might look like on other worlds, let alone other galaxies or other universes.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'm not entirely sure why anyone would think a claim of "universal consciousness" is actually a concept worth serious consideration.

It isn't.

 

[YmirGF]

There are different ideas about what consciousness is, personally I view it as the basic function of awareness.
We are still struggling to understand what human consciousness is, so making claims about "universal consciousness" is pointless and silly. We really have no idea what consciousness might look like on other worlds, let alone other galaxies or other universes.

And that is why this notion is downright silly and is most definitely anthropomorphic projection. We simply have no idea if life or sentient beings exist anywhere else, let alone making bold claims about all beings, in all possible multiverses, being part and parcel of the same psychic goo of "universal consciousness". Seriously, the only being who could claim such a thing would be a god.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Seriously, the only being who could claim such a thing would be a god.

Or somebody who thinks they are a god.

 

[godnotgod]

I don't really care what you think of my view to be honest. After those emotionally charged, egotistical outbursts, I can't really take anything you have to say seriously.

I assure you, the emotion was purely mirth and jollity.

To say: 'everything is interaction' tells me zilch. I want to know what the nature of the interaction actually is. You say it's real, but there is nothing to show that it is real. I say it's illusion, and even modern science, in trying to get to the nitty gritty, finds neither nit nor grit.

 

[godnotgod]

Or somebody who thinks they are a god.

I see you are no longer 'Buddhish', as that alluded to something that could possibly be real.

Are you going to answer my question or not? you stated that there is just consciousness, instead of personal consciousness. That is universal consciousness. Glad to see you finally agree to the existence of universal consciousness.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I assure you, the emotion was purely mirth and jollity.

To say: 'everything is interaction' tells me zilch. I want to know what the nature of the interaction actually is. You say it's real, but there is nothing to show that it is real. I say it's illusion, and even modern science, in trying to get to the nitty gritty, finds neither nit nor grit.

Everything shows that it is real. Even your ability to have this conversation with me shows that it is real.

Interaction
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interaction is a kind of action that occurs as two or more objects have an effect upon one another. The idea of a two-way effect is essential in the concept of interaction, as opposed to a one-way causal effect. A closely related term is interconnectivity, which deals with the interactions of interactions within systems: combinations of many simple interactions can lead to surprising emergent phenomena.

 

[godnotgod]

And that is why this notion is downright silly and is most definitely anthropomorphic projection. We simply have no idea if life or sentient beings exist anywhere else, let alone making bold claims about all beings, in all possible multiverses, being part and parcel of the same psychic goo of "universal consciousness". Seriously, the only being who could claim such a thing would be a god.

There is no agent of universal consciousness; there is only universal consciousness itself, and you are unwittingly using it right now, thinking it to be personal consciousness.

The waves do not say: 'there is only wave water, and no ocean water'. Both wave and ocean are of the same universal substance: water. You are an action of the total universe, as the wave is an action of the total ocean. But because you have an ego, you think only you have consciousness and the universe is a dead inanimate thing, when, if you were to spiritually awaken, would see that your ego is bust and the only true reality is universal consciousness, without an agent of consciousness. There is no 'I" nor 'god' that is conscious. There is only consciousness itself. You are not doing IT; IT is doing you.

 

[godnotgod]

Everything shows that it is real. Even your ability to have this conversation with me shows that it is real.

Interaction
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interaction is a kind of action that occurs as two or more objects have an effect upon one another. The idea of a two-way effect is essential in the concept of interaction, as opposed to a one-way causal effect. A closely related term is interconnectivity, which deals with the interactions of interactions within systems: combinations of many simple interactions can lead to surprising emergent phenomena.

All true within this Third level of consciousness, just as the hero slaying the dragon is real in the dream state. On the Fourth and subsequent levels of consciousness, none of it is real. All that is real on the upper levels is The Changeless.

 

[Runewolf1973]

All true within this Third level of consciousness, just as the hero slaying the dragon is real in the dream state. On the Fourth and subsequent levels of consciousness, none of it is real. All that is real on the upper levels is The Changeless.

I say the changeless does not exist. Nothingness is not a reality.

 

[YmirGF]

There is no agent of universal consciousness; there is only universal consciousness itself, and you are unwittingly using it right now, thinking it to be personal consciousness.

The waves do not say: 'there is only wave water, and no ocean water'. Both wave and ocean are of the same universal substance: water. You are an action of the total universe, as the wave is an action of the total ocean. But because you have an ego, you think only you have consciousness and the universe is a dead inanimate thing, when, if you were to spiritually awaken, would see that your ego is bust and the only true reality is universal consciousness, without an agent of consciousness. There is no 'I" nor 'god' that is conscious. There is only consciousness itself. You are not doing IT; IT is doing you.

Balderdash. It sounds nice though. My guess is, as we used to say in the 80's, "He's had one too many hits, one too many times." You would seem to embody that sentiment so ably.

 

[YmirGF]

I say the changeless does not exist. Nothingness is not a reality.

What I find amusing is the notion that this so-called "The Changeless" explores itself via universes teeming with change. It is not likely a changeless "being" would understand the concept of change to begin with.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not entirely sure why anyone would think a claim of "universal consciousness" is actually a concept worth serious consideration. /QUOTE]

That's what the prisoners in Plato's Cave said about The Sun when they were told of it existing just outside their cave, and what the church elders said about helocentricity to Galileo upon hearing his claim.

 

[godnotgod]

Balderdash. It sounds nice though. My guess is, as we used to say in the 80's, "He's had one too many hits, one too many times." You would seem to embody that sentiment so ably.

You're just mouthing a load of fluff that has zero meaning. Address the post, or get off the pot.

 

[godnotgod]

And that is why this notion is downright silly and is most definitely anthropomorphic projection. We simply have no idea if life or sentient beings exist anywhere else, let alone making bold claims about all beings, in all possible multiverses, being part and parcel of the same psychic goo of "universal consciousness". Seriously, the only being who could claim such a thing would be a god.

Show me the image of 'antrhopomorphic projection' you are referring to. You can't, because there is none, save for those conjured up in those cave wall shadow brains you and Buddhish manage to come up with.

 

[godnotgod]

What I find amusing is the notion that this so-called "The Changeless" explores itself via universes teeming with change. It is not likely a changeless "being" would understand the concept of change to begin with.

Those worlds are none else than The Changeless playing the part of those worlds, just as YmirGF is The Changeless playing YmirGF, all the while pretending it is not The Changless. It's called Hide and Seek.

What better to understand change than The Changeless?

 

[godnotgod]

I say the changeless does not exist. Nothingness is not a reality.

You yourself are The Changeless, pretending that you don't exist. Nice acting job.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You yourself are The Changeless, pretending that you don't exist. Nice acting job.

Walk across a bed of hot coals barefoot, then pretend like you don't exist. Do so without interacting.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Are you going to answer my question or not? you stated that there is just consciousness, instead of personal consciousness. That is universal consciousness. Glad to see you finally agree to the existence of universal consciousness.

Again, the same old tiresome point scoring and word games, anything but concede you might possibly be wrong. Ironic for somebody who argues that personal consciousness and ego are illusory.

Just to clarify, when I said it's "just consciousness" I meant it isn't personal or universal, ie you're setting up a false dichotomy. As I've explained several times your idea of universal consciousness is deeply flawed. We barely understand what human consciousness is, let alone what consciousness might look like elsewhere in the universe.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You're just mouthing a load of fluff that has zero meaning. Address the post, or get off the pot.

That really is pure projection on your part.