Richard Dawkins had a stroke!

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

What I find interesting is how some people seem to have no problem lying like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-immoral-not-to-abort-a-downs-syndrome-foetus

 

[fantome profane]

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-immoral-not-to-abort-a-downs-syndrome-foetus

Nowhere in that article does he even talk about people with disabilities. This is about foetuses.

Whatever you think of Dawkins, he is not a foetus.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Nowhere in that article does he even talk about people with disabilities. This is about foetuses.

Whatever you think of Dawkins, he is not a foetus.

However there are people in the world that have downs is the reality .
I don't think anything of Dawkins totally indifferent to him apart from the glib comments.

 

[fantome profane]

However there are people in the world that have downs is the reality .
I don't think anything of Dawkins totally indifferent to him apart from the glib comments.

But the simple fact remains that Dawkins never said that people with disabilities do not have lives worth living. When you said that he said that you lied. Pointing to something else he said that you find disagreeable or "glib" does not change the fact that he did not say what you said he did, and it does not change the fact that you lied.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

But the simple fact remains that Dawkins never said that people with disabilities do not have lives worth living. When you said that he said that you lied. Pointing to something else he said that you find disagreeable or "glib" does not change the fact that he did not say what you said he did, and it does not change the fact that you lied.

He calculated himself that a persons life who had downs was not worth living and therefore should be aborted prior to birth . Down syndrome is a dissability , and not very severe is much worse , the suggestion ?.
He has No right to make such a distinction , next he be saying abort if you have less than 1mill in the bank as your kids lives wont be worth living and what's worse is your supporting it.
May not be eloquent use of English but which part do you not understand and why did he later apologise .
Sorry if I offend your Diety was a mere simple observation .
Steven Hawking is a genius scientist he wouldn't be here if it was up to Dawkins.
Let's just hope he makes a full recovery an shows a little more empathy towards those less fortunate than himself , probably the first major bad experience he had in life ,idk.comes to us all eventually he a hipocrite .

 

[fantome profane]

He calculated himself that a persons life who had downs was not worth living and therefore should be aborted prior to birth . Down syndrome is a dissability , and not very severe is much worse , the suggestion ?.
He has No right to make such a distinction , next he be saying abort if you have less than 1mill in the bank as your kids lives wont be worth living and what's worse is your supporting it.
May not be eloquent use of English but which part do you not understand and why did he later apologise .
Sorry if I offend your Diety was a mere simple observation .

For the record I disagree with Dawkins on a number of issues and have expressed that disagreement quite often on this board. And in fact I disagree with what he said about it being immoral not to abort a foetus with down syndrome.

But he did not say people with down syndrome do not have lives worth living. He did not say people with any disability do not have lives worth living.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

For the record I disagree with Dawkins on a number of issues and have expressed that disagreement quite often on this board. And in fact I disagree with what he said about it being immoral not to abort a foetus with down syndrome.

But he did not say people with down syndrome do not have lives worth living. He did not say people with any disability do not have lives worth living.

Yeah but if a moron like I, knows what he implying geesh!
Anyway I'm done with this one
Good night

 

[fantome profane]

Yeah but if a moron like I, knows what he implying geesh!
Anyway I'm done with this one
Good night

If you had said that you thought that Dawkins implied that people with disabilities did not have lives worth living I would not have called that a lie. I would have said you are wrong, and I do believe you are wrong here, but I would say it was a lie.

But that is not what you said. You said that Dawkins said people with disabilities do not have lives worth living. And that is still a lie. He did not say that, regardless of what you (mistakenly) infer.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

If you had said that you thought that Dawkins implied that people with disabilities did not have lives worth living I would not have called that a lie. I would have said you are wrong, and I do believe you are wrong here, but I would say it was a lie.

But that is not what you said. You said that Dawkins said people with disabilities do not have lives worth living. And that is still a lie. He did not say that, regardless of what you (mistakenly) infer.

You understand the implications ? Yes or No ?, what personal thing are you riding on to defend something so stupid ?.
In other words, a foetus with Down’s syndrome is better off unborn.
Logical inference: a person with Down’s syndrome is better off dead?.
Dawkins doesn’t know what it’s like to be dead, and he doesn’t know what it’s like to have Down’s syndrome .
And if it were followed through logically, as Dawkins insists an argument should be, then we need to do something about old people, about all people with serious illnesses, about all low achievers etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not funny at all. Life, sickness, near-death and death are sober and serious matters, they are subjects of all times as long as humanity exists, till such times G-d who created the above ends them all, the will be the Day of Judgement:

To me, your "eye opening experience to lead to god" seems odd. I was pretty much born dead, with very little chance or hope of living past a few minutes after birth. I've nearly drowned before. I've been dealt hardships, difficult illnesses, and have more than once wondered if I'll live through a certain experience. But, looking back, none of it makes me think of god or the after life. I realize I have this life, that this life is fragile, that we should work towards understanding, tolerance, acceptance, and that the Machiavellian pursuits of power are uncertain as the lottery, that the pursuit of happiness is fleeting, and that we could literally die at any time, but it has made me appreciate this life, the wonder and curiosity, the tears of joy and of sorrow, the triumphs and defeat, that this is what it is to be human, that this is our experience, our life, our destiny, but none of it has ever made me think "I better get right with god." I've been miserable most of my life, but the misery has made all the more appreciative of the sweetness and coolness of gentle spring's breeze caressing my bare flesh. It has made me appreciate and deeply cherish the few friendships I've had. For all my hard ships, I've only come to appreciate this life, and especially the small things such as the soothing warm air and gentle rumbles of a spring storm, the magnificence of a wonderfully seasoned dish (both the smell and the taste), and the simple joys of spending time with people whom's presence you enjoy.
None of it has ever made me think "I want to make sure I have a good afterlife." It's reminded me of why I should enjoy the smell of roses, the majesty of a soaring eagle, or laughter shared with friends.

 

[psychoslice]

I feel that wonderful people like Richard keep religion honest, after all someone has to voice their opinion when they come up with a lot of crap that could ruin our life, as free living people, yes religion can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, which most times it is.

 

[fantome profane]

You understand the implications ?

I don't believe Dawkins intended to imply that a person with down syndrome is better off dead. If he wanted to say that he would have said that. He didn't say that. There is a difference between a foetus and a person. What I understand from Dawkins comment is that he felt it was better to have a child without down syndrome than to have one with down syndrome. Now I am not even sure I agree with Dawkins on this. But what he said is not the same thing as saying that a person with down syndrome does not have a life worth living. And it does not lead to that conclusion.

I think what he said was cruel, insensitive and judgmental. He failed to show compassion for a person faced with this decision. And he was wrong to say that it is immoral for a person to knowingly have a child with down syndrome.

There is actually plenty here to criticize Dawkins for what he actually said. But at this point even you must be able to see that what he actually said is not what you said he said.

I don't like it when people lie and I will often call them on it. And you clearly lied.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

I don't believe Dawkins intended to imply that a person with down syndrome is better off dead. If he wanted to say that he would have said that. He didn't say that. There is a difference between a foetus and a person. What I understand from Dawkins comment is that he felt it was better to have a child without down syndrome than to have one with down syndrome. Now I am not even sure I agree with Dawkins on this. But what he said is not the same thing as saying that a person with down syndrome does not have a life worth living. And it does not lead to that conclusion.

I think what he said was cruel, insensitive and judgmental. He failed to show compassion for a person faced with this decision. And he was wrong to say that it is immoral for a person to knowingly have a child with down syndrome.

There is actually plenty here to criticize Dawkins for what he actually said. But at this point even you must be able to see that what he actually said is not what you said he said.

I don't like it when people lie and I will often call them on it. And you clearly lied.

Now you lie, if you don't think he implied that why would you think it cruel , no you are mistaken the logical inference is sound imho

 

[paarsurrey]

To me, your "eye opening experience to lead to god" seems odd. I was pretty much born dead, with very little chance or hope of living past a few minutes after birth. I've nearly drowned before. I've been dealt hardships, difficult illnesses, and have more than once wondered if I'll live through a certain experience. But, looking back, none of it makes me think of god or the after life. I realize I have this life, that this life is fragile, that we should work towards understanding, tolerance, acceptance, and that the Machiavellian pursuits of power are uncertain as the lottery, that the pursuit of happiness is fleeting, and that we could literally die at any time, but it has made me appreciate this life, the wonder and curiosity, the tears of joy and of sorrow, the triumphs and defeat, that this is what it is to be human, that this is our experience, our life, our destiny, but none of it has ever made me think "I better get right with god." I've been miserable most of my life, but the misery has made all the more appreciative of the sweetness and coolness of gentle spring's breeze caressing my bare flesh. It has made me appreciate and deeply cherish the few friendships I've had. For all my hard ships, I've only come to appreciate this life, and especially the small things such as the soothing warm air and gentle rumbles of a spring storm, the magnificence of a wonderfully seasoned dish (both the smell and the taste), and the simple joys of spending time with people whom's presence you enjoy.
None of it has ever made me think "I want to make sure I have a good afterlife." It's reminded me of why I should enjoy the smell of roses, the majesty of a soaring eagle, or laughter shared with friends.

Life in every form/state is valuable and precious, it is for this that one struggles one's most that one should live and not die. No harm if one thanks for that the ONE who bestowed it:

[14:8] And remember also the time when your Lord declared, ‘If you are grateful, I will, surely, bestow more favours on you; but if you are ungrateful, then know that My punishment is severe indeed.’
[14:9] And Moses said, ‘If you disbelieve, you and those who are in the earth all together,you can do no harm to God; verily, Allah is Self- Sufficient, Praiseworthy.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=14​

Regards

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Life in every form/state is valuable and precious, it is for this that one struggles one's most that one should live and not die. No harm if one thanks for that the ONE who bestowed it:

[14:8] And remember also the time when your Lord declared, ‘If you are grateful, I will, surely, bestow more favours on you; but if you are ungrateful, then know that My punishment is severe indeed.’
[14:9] And Moses said, ‘If you disbelieve, you and those who are in the earth all together,you can do no harm to God; verily, Allah is Self- Sufficient, Praiseworthy.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=14​

Regards

In Christianity , when Jesus rose from the dead , the apostle Thomas failed to believe .
It is said " Thomas had more love for God than all the other disciples .
Jesus forgave Thomas

 

[paarsurrey]

In Christianity , when Jesus rose from the dead , the apostle Thomas failed to believe .
It is said " Thomas had more love for God than all the other disciples .
Jesus forgave Thomas

Jesus never rose from the dead. Only Thomas saw through the things, he knew that Jesus was alive and some how he escaped death.Right?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Richard Dawkins had a stroke!

What is the latest about his health?
May he recovers fully and spends his rest of the life in the straight and truthful path of Islam.
Regards

 

[Shadow Wolf]

spends his rest of the life in the straight and truthful path of Islam.

He won't. It's a very safe assumption that he isn't going to be converting to any religion.

 

[paarsurrey]

He won't. It's a very safe assumption that he isn't going to be converting to any religion.

How could you be so sure about him?
You mean he is not open to reason?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Richard Dawkins had a stroke!

Has he fully recovered and is good in health? Please
Regards