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Right-wing extremists vow to return to Washington for Joe Biden's inauguration

Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
Big talk.
Nonetheless, government should learn from their recent failure.
I also recommend weeding out cops who are sympathetic to
insurrectionists. We don't need more mischief from within,
eg, cops letting the MAGAs past the barricades.

Agreed. Though they obviously haven't learned from the past, I don't know how well they'll learn from the present. Unfortunately what we're seeing is pretty much history repeating itself: the presence of bigoted cretins has been the slimy underbelly of the US pretty much the past 400 years. They were part of the Confederacy, the KKK, Jim Crow and so on. The names change but the evil remains the same. All the while they've infiltrated all levels of politics and law enforcement. The cops who let the MAGgots pass the barricades are just the 2021 edition of the cops who wore sheets and covered up when (they and) their buddies burned crosses on lawns and abducted and killed black folk with total sense of impunity.
 

Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
Absolutely not. If you come to my house and knock on the door, I'll assume you're wanting peace. Knock down my door, I'll expect you're not.



Nope. And those that were peacefully assembled have nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, you have to be aware of what the people you are associating with are doing, and whether or not you want to be caught up in it. If you don't want to be labeled a shoplifter, don't go to the store with people who do. Is it fair? No. But life typically isn't.

I attended a large university and lived on campus. An event that students were unhappy about occurred and they took to the streets. What was meant to be just a show of numbers quickly ramped out of control and people started getting ugly, vandalizing vehicles and property, setting fires. My friends and I looked at each other at the first signs of it and said "Nope" and left. Meanwhile, campus police saw they were outnumbered and called in city police, who arrived in force with full on riot gear and a train of police vans. People resisted, stuff went sideways. Lots of arrests, some people were suspended and/or expelled, wailing about "I'm just a kid" or "I didn't mean to" or "It wasn't me, I was just ___". We watched from a dorm window.

Every person there is complicit in what took place. Period. If they didn't agree with what was happening, if it was other than what they thought they'd signed on for then they could have left at any time ...but they chose not to. Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I understand the sentiment and that is certainly true of many.

But do not underestimate these people. Underestimating them is partly what allowed the events of Wednesday to happen. People think that was horrific. What they fail to appreciate is it could have been far, far worse.

The nature of assault weapons and bombs is that it only takes a small number of competent bad-actors to cause mayhem. Unfortunately countless Americans possess them.

Imagine Round 2 of Wednesday’s events, but this time, the insurrectionists are angrier, more desperate, and they learned that less than deadly force was insufficient in Round 1.

What happens next time, if one or two MAGA patriots start firing? Does the National Guard return fire on a crowd of protestors on the steps of our Capitol?

I have many friends and family who are completely brainwashed by Trumpworld insanity. When millions of ordinary people go nuts ... nutty people act.

That guy with the horns walking around the Senate floor was funny, right? Seems harmless enough. What’s less funny is the army of Karens who provided cover for guys like that. What’s less funny is the guys who pepper sprayed the police and roamed the Capitol building with zip ties shouting “Where’s Mike Pence? Where’s Nancy Pelosi?”

Honestly, it would be insane to have an in-person inauguration on January 20. It is far too dangerous to have the President, VP, House and Senate leaders all in one spot, with Trump nowhere to be seen.

Do not underestimate these people, comical though they may seem. Trump was comical too - until he wasn’t.
I am firmly of the view that it is essential for government not to be seen to be afraid of these hooligans. I am all for a massive security operation, but a low-key one. By all means put a security cordon around the area and search everyone entering for weapons. By all means have a huge riot control force waiting out of sight round corners. But I believe it is imperative that the show must go on as normal.

On one other aspect I share your concerns. A massive "deprogramming" effort is going to be needed over the next few years, to reduce the number of people buying into these mad conspiracy theories. I'm not really sure what the best way is to do that. However, given the dominance of business in US public life, it is encouraging that at long last the business community is realising its fundamental error in supporting Trump and his acolytes. They backed him for the sake of a few tax cuts, when in fact the stability of US society, on which business fundamentally depends for its profits, was being attacked at the roots. Now they see the results of that short-termism.

One person who bears a lot of responsibility, but who has quietly done a duck-dive, is Rupert Murdoch.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Now here, I'm not sure of the way things work in the US, so a question: are the police and security who should have been prepared under the control of the legislative or the executive branch? And if the executive, isn't that basically -- well, Trump? And why would he want them prepared?
Who runs the Capitol cops...
Capitol Police Board - Wikipedia
Who are the Capitol cops....
United States Capitol Police - Wikipedia

More complicated is who runs the National Guard....
United States National Guard - Wikipedia
In short....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d-out-washington-dc-heres-what-you-need-know/
Excerpted....
Jan. 7, 2021 at 6:00 a.m. EST
Hundreds of Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol yesterday, halting the formal electoral college vote count by Congress and creating widespread disorder in the nation’s capital. Though the Department of Defense initially rejected a request from the District of Columbia, on Wednesday afternoon, Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller approved the mobilization of the full D.C. National Guard contingent — 1,100 troops. The governors of Maryland, Virginia and New Jersey also approved activations of their own troops to support the D.C. National Guard, with more states expected to follow suit.

.

1. Trump will not personally command the D.C. National Guard
Control of the National Guard operates differently in the District of Columbia than in the 50 U.S. states. Because of the capital’s unique status, the president serves as commander in chief of the D.C. National Guard. In practice, however, command authority has been delegated through the Secretary of Defense to the civilian Secretary of the Army for the Army National Guard and the Secretary of the Air Force for the Air National Guard. Upon request, other states — like Virginia — can augment the D.C. guard.

Since these personnel likely will fall under local control, the Posse Comitatus Act, which prevents the president from using active-duty troops to enforce domestic law, will not apply. National Guard members can support local and federal police and carry out law enforcement activities that help restore order. The Secretary of Defense has the authority to activate the D.C. National Guard on his own, but he did consult Vice President Pence. The fact that Trump was not involved suggests he was “missing in action” amid a national crisis. While the Secretary of the Army will exercise command authority, President Trump or the acting Secretary of Defense will have opportunities to inject themselves into the decision-making process, where they might direct troops to either stand down or even support protesters. Trump’s recent purge of Pentagon leadership means that some Trump loyalists may be in position to try to shape decisions. However, they have little formal and practical authority to do so.

2. The U.S. military will not follow illegal orders
The National Guard has stepped in to serve as law enforcement before, especially when local police become overwhelmed and outnumbered, as appears to be the case in Washington now. However, their role is limited. If President Trump attempts to order the military to help protesters trying to interfere with normal election certification proceedings, senior military leaders would likely interpret it as an illegal order.

If that is the case, they are likely to refuse to comply. Although Trump has installed multiple loyalists over the last couple of months in the Department of Defense, orders will not work unless uniformed officers obey them. In August, the most senior military officer in the United States, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, testified that the military would reject unlawful orders and support the peaceful transition of power.

3. Still, there are risks
The more serious risk is that most National Guard personnel are not trained as police. An aggressive mistake, a fearful escalation or inadvertent provocation by a National Guard soldier who is unprepared for a difficult situation could spark a crisis.
:
:
Was the Department of Defense prepared?
Many scholars have predicted election-related violence for months, and the president’s focus on Congress’ meeting to certify the electoral college results on Wednesday provided a clear focal point for trouble.

But reports that D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser’s initial requests for additional support on Wednesday found the Pentagon flat-footed suggests Pentagon leaders were not as ready as they might have been. The National Guard now faces the task of restoring order in the city of Washington and protecting federal property. Given the urgency of this request, National Guard troops and protesters may find themselves in the middle of difficult, violent situations in the District of Columbia, and the city’s police will face the challenge of coordinating with unfamiliar units without much prior planning. If these National Guard units have not been training and preparing themselves for this type of situation over the last few months, there is a high risk of mistakes.

====== End of excerpt =====
The above info paints the picture I see.
Add to this the credible reports that some Capitol Police
cooperated with MAGAs to overwhelm the building.
We have a picture where the cops & Pentagon aren't
as interested in protecting Congress as they should be.
But I'd wager your left one that the shock & embarrassment
of the Jan 6 events will turn their attitudes around for the
Jan 20 inauguration.

At this point, Congress, the Capitol Police, & the DC mayor
should be coordinating with the Pentagon to verify cooperation
this time. It it doesn't appear to be forthcoming, then they
should assume they're on their own, & plan accordingly.
It could mean inaugurating Biden somewhere else secretly.
Of if they'll continue as planned, be better prepared for
potential violence, eg, more barriers, more personnel, &
more appropriate weaponry, eg, rifles, tear gas.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Not to mention the threat that Trump might tell the National Guard to stand down next time and let things progress.
The Pentagon could view that as an illegal order.
So the question becomes in what way will the loyalists
he installed there see it.
The Capitol Police & the DC mayor should determine
the level of support they'll get in advance, & then
prepare accordingly
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Agreed. Though they obviously haven't learned from the past, I don't know how well they'll learn from the present. Unfortunately what we're seeing is pretty much history repeating itself: the presence of bigoted cretins has been the slimy underbelly of the US pretty much the past 400 years. They were part of the Confederacy, the KKK, Jim Crow and so on. The names change but the evil remains the same. All the while they've infiltrated all levels of politics and law enforcement. The cops who let the MAGgots pass the barricades are just the 2021 edition of the cops who wore sheets and covered up when (they and) their buddies burned crosses on lawns and abducted and killed black folk with total sense of impunity.
Trying to make it about race, eh.
That would be to really misunderstand MAGAs. Sure,
sure, we see some Confederate fans & racists among
them, but to take an element of a group, & make it writ
large is a mistake. Similarly, the whole of BLM shouldn't
be defined by their violent element.

I know quite a few MAGAs, & they're generally quite
progressive regarding race relations. Their concerns are
more about (varying from person to person) creeping
socialism, gun rights, abortion, economic prosperity,
& the belief that Biden stole the election.

Ya gotta understand your enemy....not demonize them.
I recommend watching OAN for their perspective.
 

Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
Trying to make it about race, eh.
That would be to really misunderstand MAGAs. Sure,
sure, we see some Confederate fans & racists among
them, but to take an element of a group, & make it writ
large is a mistake. Similarly, the whole of BLM shouldn't
be defined by their violent element.

I know quite a few MAGAs, & they're generally quite
progressive regarding race relations. Their concerns are
more about (varying from person to person) creeping
socialism, gun rights, abortion, economic prosperity,
& the belief that Biden stole the election.

Ya gotta understand your enemy....not demonize them.
I recommend watching OAN for their perspective.
I don't need to make it about race, they do that fine all on their own. Waving Confederate flags and sporting anti-Semitic shirts and belonging to white power groups are not the sign of racial progressives.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I don't need to make it about race, they do that fine all on their own. Waving Confederate flags and sporting anti-Semitic shirts and belonging to white power groups are not the sign of racial progressives.
Too true, Squire!! :rolleyes:

What I find so ironic about all this is that Make America Great Again has in fact done precisely the opposite. The standing of the US in the world has not been so low, nor have its institutions been in such bad shape, for over a century, thanks to Trump.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't need to make it about race, they do that fine all on their own. Waving Confederate flags and sporting anti-Semitic shirts and belonging to white power groups are not the sign of racial progressives.
You are making it about race by ignoring their other motivations.
One cannot judge all by the actions of a few.
Otherwise, BLM would be just violent anti-white looters,
Democrats would be all sexual predators, & Republicans
would all be closeted homosexuals with a "wide stance"
in public lavatories.
 
The Secretary of Defense has the authority to activate the D.C. National Guard on his own, but he did consult Vice President Pence. The fact that Trump was not involved suggests he was “missing in action” amid a national crisis.
... Or, it suggests that the Secretary of Defense and the Vice President acted without the President and went around him, knowing instinctively he was a bad actor and knowing they could plausibly claim that there was no time / ability to properly go through the President.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
"We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match,” wrote a popular Parler user who frequently posts about QAnon.

These people need to be rooted out and jailed at the least.

nbcnews.com/politics/congress/right-wing-extremists-vow-return-washington-joe-biden-s-inauguration-n1253546
I wonder if they realize that the DC National Guard has already been mobilized, so Trump will have much less opportunity to delay or hamper the response this time.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
They are right-wing; authoritarian fascists. Satyagraha is not their style.
True, so the soft approach to deal with them won't work. I am surprised that there were only 5 death, and that they did not bring in the big guns. After all it's America. Looking at the video, it looked bad, but it could have been much worse. America should take it very serious. But that they were shouting to "hang" certain politicians is really bad. Remembers me of 1850 or so, during the Wild West. Almost looks like Trump reversed evolution 150 years.
 

Suave

Simulated character
Well, the OP was about Treason, so...this is a derail and reportable.

The O.P.'s titled " Right-wing extremists vow to return to Washington for Joe Biden's inauguration".

The O.P.'s content reads as "We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match,” wrote a popular Parler user who frequently posts about QAnon.

These people need to be rooted out and jailed at the least."

nbcnews.com/politics/congress/right-wing-extremists-vow-return-washington-joe-biden-s-inauguration-n1253546

Nowhere in this thread's O.P. does the word "treason" ever appear. You deviated from this thread's O.P.'s subject matter well before I did. If you were to report me for having derailed this thread, after you yourself had done this, then you would come across as being really asinine.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
The O.P.'s titled " Right-wing extremists vow to return to Washington for Joe Biden's inauguration".

The O.P.'s content reads as "We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match,” wrote a popular Parler user who frequently posts about QAnon.

These people need to be rooted out and jailed at the least."

nbcnews.com/politics/congress/right-wing-extremists-vow-return-washington-joe-biden-s-inauguration-n1253546

Nowhere in this thread's O.P. does the word "treason" ever appear. You deviated from this thread's O.P.'s subject matter well before I did. If you were to report me for having derailed this thread, after you yourself had done this, then you would come across as being really asinine.

Apologies. I think I confused this with another thread I was looking at.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'm sure that every cop on duty on inauguration day will have seen the photos like this one.

I don't expect many of the cops will be posing for selfies with the rioters/coup attempters on inauguration day.
 

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I'm sure that every cop on duty on inauguration day will have seen the photos like this one.

I don't expect many of the cops will be posing for selfies with the rioters/coup attempters on inauguration day.
Can you explain what this photo is showing? It’s hard to tell. It appears to be a Capitol Police officer laying face down with rioters swarming him?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Can you explain what this photo is showing? It’s hard to tell. It appears to be a Capitol Police officer laying face down with rioters swarming him?
That's right. The photo has been making the rounds on Twitter over the last day or two. I haven't seen any identification of the name of the cop or the extent of his injuries.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
True, so the soft approach to deal with them won't work. I am surprised that there were only 5 death, and that they did not bring in the big guns. After all it's America. Looking at the video, it looked bad, but it could have been much worse. America should take it very serious. But that they were shouting to "hang" certain politicians is really bad. Remembers me of 1850 or so, during the Wild West. Almost looks like Trump reversed evolution 150 years.
Don't know about 1850, but a few years later, in '56, an abolitionist Senator was attacked and beaten nearly to death with a cane, by a pro-slavery representative, on the Senate floor.
Southerners sent him hundreds of canes to replace his broken one.o_O

Me, I'm reminded of the mob that overran the palace of Versailles in 1789, kidnapped the king and queen, and took them back to Paris, where they could keep a closer eye on them.
Then there was Hitler's Beer Hall putsch in '23, which was quickly put down and Hitler arrested; and the Fascist march on Rome in '22, which was resolved (?) by installing Mussolini as Prime Minister.

History repeats itself. The signs of impending turmoil are known, yet we ignore them.
 
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Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
You are making it about race by ignoring their other motivations.
One cannot judge all by the actions of a few.
Otherwise, BLM would be just violent anti-white looters,
Democrats would be all sexual predators, & Republicans
would all be closeted homosexuals with a "wide stance"
in public lavatories.
Incorrect. You're denying their racism: by stating "Trying to make it about race, eh." you're asserting it's not a motivation and not to be factored as a significant motivation. Me pointing it out did not suggest it's their only defect.
 
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