Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, this is pure nonsense. It is one hundred percent wrong.
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road-tested technology in the U.S. Patent Office allow cars and trucks to run on hydrogen extracted from tap water by electrolysis...
- Thread starter Redneck Mystic
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is not the US Government that makes this illegal. It is the laws of thermodynamics that do so. You can break human made laws. I have as yet to see anyone break a scientific law.
Right? Hydrogen bombs anyone? aka The H-Bomb
"In a hydrogen bomb, hydrogen nuclei combine to form heavier helium nuclei, losing a small portion of their mass in the process. This mass is converted into energy using Einstein's equation, E=mc^2, which states that the amount of energy created is equal to the amount of mass that is converted multiplied by the speed of light squared. The energy produced forms the explosive power of the bomb. "
Redneck Mystic
Active Member
Apparently, several automakers made cars that ran on hydrogen extracted from water by electrolysis and hydrogen was absorb into an anhydride fuel cell. I don’t see how that violates any laws of physics.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is different. An H-bomb does not use a chemical reaction. That is a nuclear one. Technically a thermonuclear one. It takes a lot of heat and pressure to make it happen. Hydrogen does burn. It is an exothermic reaction. That is why it takes energy to break water apart. You are putting the energy released when it burns back into the two gases. This link is at a high elementary to middle school level:
What Happens When Hydrogen & Oxygen Combine?
Hydrogen molecules violently react with oxygen when the existing molecular bonds break and new bonds are formed between oxygen and hydrogen atoms. As the products of the reaction are at a lower energy level than the reactants, the result is an explosive release of energy and the production of water.
sciencing.com
This is at a high school or introduction to chemistry level in college:
Reaction energy of oxygen and hydrogen
From the bonding energy of following bonds that I found in a Wikipedia article, I calculated the reaction energy that would be released when oxygen and hydrogen are reacted to produce water. The ph...
You are right. I'm still half asleep this morning lol. My brain literally just went hydrogen = big boom.That is different. An H-bomb does not use a chemical reaction. That is a nuclear one. Technically a thermonuclear one. It takes a lot of heat and pressure to make it happen. Hydrogen does burn. It is an exothermic reaction. That is why it takes energy to break water apart. You are putting the energy released when it burns back into the two gases. This link is at a high elementary to middle school level:
What Happens When Hydrogen & Oxygen Combine?
Hydrogen molecules violently react with oxygen when the existing molecular bonds break and new bonds are formed between oxygen and hydrogen atoms. As the products of the reaction are at a lower energy level than the reactants, the result is an explosive release of energy and the production of water.
This is at a high school or introduction to chemistry level in college:
Reaction energy of oxygen and hydrogen
From the bonding energy of following bonds that I found in a Wikipedia article, I calculated the reaction energy that would be released when oxygen and hydrogen are reacted to produce water. The ph...chemistry.stackexchange.com
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It doesn't. No one says that it does. Your friend did not propose this. Your friend sounds like a free energy nut. It takes energy to make that hydrogen.
Please note that fuel cells are not internal combustion engines. The only moving part in fuels cells is the fuel itself. They combine hydrogen with oxygen and make electricity in the process. No high heat, no moving parts, no hydrogen embrittlement.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, it "explodes", ie, burning creates an
increase in temperature & pressure, which
can be used to perform mechanical work.
Perhaps you're thinking of atmospheric engines
like the Otto Langen, which used cooling products
of combustion being overcome by atmospheric
pressure.
Refrigeration uses expansion of a gas
to lower a temperature. To "generate cold"
is an odd way to phrase this.
This one belongs to a friend....
(The announcer pronounces "Langen" incorrectly.)
Oh, the Vogonity!
Redneck Mystic
Active Member
thank you, I cannot imagine how this went off into a hydrogen bomb theory or relatively discussion, but then, I have been posting into this platform for a while and I’ve seen many comments that had nothing to do with the topic, as far as I could tellThat is different. An H-bomb does not use a chemical reaction. That is a nuclear one. Technically a thermonuclear one. It takes a lot of heat and pressure to make it happen. Hydrogen does burn. It is an exothermic reaction. That is why it takes energy to break water apart. You are putting the energy released when it burns back into the two gases. This link is at a high elementary to middle school level:
What Happens When Hydrogen & Oxygen Combine?
Hydrogen molecules violently react with oxygen when the existing molecular bonds break and new bonds are formed between oxygen and hydrogen atoms. As the products of the reaction are at a lower energy level than the reactants, the result is an explosive release of energy and the production of water.
This is at a high school or introduction to chemistry level in college:
Reaction energy of oxygen and hydrogen
From the bonding energy of following bonds that I found in a Wikipedia article, I calculated the reaction energy that would be released when oxygen and hydrogen are reacted to produce water. The ph...
Hydrogen fuel cell technology has been around for about as long as we've been using internal combustion engines.
Probably the biggest reason we're not all driving hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles now is because it would be nearly impossible to erect any sort of monolithic industry around the concept: anyone with the space and a little know-how could put together their own refinery in their garage.
It would be almost impossible for a corporation or cartel of corporations to create an infrastructure whereby the public would be dependent solely on them for thier fuel supply.
On the other hand, the petroleum industry was already one of the dominant industries in the world by the time the internal combustion engine came into use.
So, while billions of dollars have gone into the development of applications for internal compustion technology over the last 100+ years, very little has gone into the development of hydrogen technology, and if anything quite a bit of money and pressure has probably gone into its suppression (there's a popular conspiracy theory that the Hindenburg disaster was orchestrated by the oil industry tycoons in order to make the public leary of anything hydrogen related).
The truth is, hydrogen fuel cell technology makes sense. It's easy to make, an adoption of the technology would involve a conversion of several aspects of existing automotive production rather than a total abandonment, and the production and use of hydrogen fuel cells results in almost no negative impacts on the environment: hydrogen fuel cell engines themselves are zero emission.
Tesla is working on a hydrogen fuel cell car that they're they're planning to put on the market in 2026.
It's too bad that octopi are so intelligent,
yet have such short lifespans. If they could
live 50 years, they'd take over the world.
Redneck Mystic
Active Member
Thank you, I think you and my mechanic friend might get along nicely. Hydrogen fuel cell makes a lot more sense to me than electric engines, and so it surprises me to learn Tesla is going in hydrogen fuel cell direction after investing so much $$$ in electric vehicles.
I know a mechanic who claimed he could
make an anti-gravity field by spinning mercury
really fast. His research never reached fruition.
Mercury vortex idiocy is all over the internet.
Bogus.
Hydrogen technology suffers from great difficulty,
which explains reluctance to invest in it, ie, if there's
no potential to use it to make money, why waste
money on it.
But things are changing now that curbing use of
fossil fuels is becoming important. That's why
there's more investment & research in H2 tech.
It surprised a lot of us, particularly because Elon Musk had been known to express contempt for the concept in the past. He's done a complete 180 since though:
So does internal combustion technology. The difference is, like I mentioned in my last post, decades and billions of dollars of research and development has gone into IC tech.
But what are the problems that you see with hydrogen fuel cell tech?
The biggest hurdle to making money from it is, again like I mentioned in my previous post, the fact that it would be almost impossible to monopolize it.
The fact that it's becoming important to the public is what matters from a money making standpoint.
Redneck Mystic
Active Member
relevance to this post, other than idiocy comes in many forms?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Modern, unleaded car engines don't do well with water. This is why cold air intakes have covers for the filter to keep water out.