Roman Catholic Church

[Axe Elf]

The word purgatory, no. What is there is the concept for praying for the dead.

Nope, not even that. The concept of making a sin offering for the dead (in this case, about four pounds of silver) is what's in there.

 

[Mister Emu]

1. Is there a preferred “Catholic” Bible?

NAB - Revised or the NRSV - Catholic Edition. Though any with an imprimatur will work just fine (I still use a Douay-Rheims from the 50's).

2. I love the downtown cathedral. It’s very ornate and is near my place of work. Is it OK to attend mass there, or should I attend the perish near my home (which I haven’t been to yet, and which is very plain and modern compared to the cathedral)?

I don't expect you'd have any issues with attending at the cathedral, which should be a parish itself with all of the attending community and learning opportunities.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Admittedly, I’m a rookie on Catholic teachings, but I have a strong suspicion you’re misstating some Catholic teachings and traditions.

Yeah. Most do. You'll notice indoctrinated catholics think different than converts. Former catholics different than former christians about the same church. You'll probably speak to people who compare catholicism to pagantry as if god and jesus were pagans of some sort. You may find people who just have hang ups over how they experienced The Church or had an absence of experience.

One thing I learned as a former convert to catholicism is ignore it. Pray, read the bible, and find connections with what you read with mass and your growth in beliefs. Whe I did all that, the bible, tradition, church, and devotion did not contradict each other.

So, go slowly, of course. Continue with mass and keep that online connection with god.

 

[Vouthon]

Thank you. A couple questions.

1. Is there a preferred “Catholic” Bible?

No preferred Bible translation per se, although the versions most used by contemporary Catholics are the NRSV, RSV, Jerusalem Bible and NAB/NABRE (the translation approved for use at Mass in the Dioceses of the United States). A more traditional option would be the Douay-Rheims, which is based upon St. Jerome's Vulgate (the standard Bible translation in Latin used by the medieval Catholic Church).

The only prerequisite for a Catholic Bible is that it include the deuterocanonical books in its Old Testament, since we regard them as being part of sacred scripture (unlike Protestants).

Additionally, Catholics and those interested in the religion should remember that we do not adhere to sola scriptura (Bible alone). Since the Bible is not our sole rule of faith and doctrine (though it is essential), I would encourage you to acquaint yourself with our sacred tradition by reading the Catechism:

Catechism of the Catholic Church

And familiarizing yourself with the Patristics (Church Fathers). A really accessible way of starting out would be to read the inspired selections in this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Inheriting-Wisdom-Readings-Ancient-Christian/dp/1565633547

Inheriting Wisdom: Readings For Today From Ancient Christian Writers

The words of Christian writers such as Tertullian, Jerome, John Chrysostom, Basil of Caesarea, and Clement of Alexandria are organized around familiar, everyday themes. In study, reflection, or devotional reading, use this book to look through their eyes at our issues and, perhaps, find a deepened and sharpened awareness of what it means to choose the Christian life.

Introduced, organized, and translated by Everett Ferguson, these quotes are arranged to allow the ancient authors to speak for themselves. Inheriting Wisdom will refresh modern readers with the rich resources of early Christianity and provide direction and guidance for the twenty-first century.
​

Also, for the same reason, it wouldn't hurt to become further immersed in our mystical tradition, the best beginners books for that:

Practice

https://www.amazon.com/Into-Silent-Land-Christian-Contemplation/dp/0195307607/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521253812&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27:Martin+Laird

Theory

Mysticism Index (the 1911 classic by Evelyn Underhill, entire text free online)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Writings-Christian-Mysticism-Paperback/dp/0812974212

https://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Christian-Mysticism-Pueblo-Books/dp/0814660126

2. I love the downtown cathedral. It’s very ornate and is near my place of work. Is it OK to attend mass there, or should I attend the perish near my home (which I haven’t been to yet, and which is very plain and modern compared to the cathedral)?

You are free to attend mass wherever you like! So if you prefer the cathedral, then go for it. You would be equally welcome in either.

 

[metis]

is based on that person's actions - not how many people pray for him.

And exactly how is it that you supposedly know that? I don't think it likely does either, but that's besides the point.

Again, it is a logical concept based on the scriptures, but whether "purgatory" it is a correct concept of not is another question.

The early church did not believe that there was a chasm that could not be crossed between the living and the dead who believed in God and Jesus, and that belief and practice must have come from somewhere, thus "the communion of saints".

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Purgatory is seemingly referenced by Paul when he says if your works are burned up you will be saved as by fire. @metis has already gone into this, but Jews hold a belief in merit conveyed to the deceased through prayers for them.

 

[pearl]

It also fits into the concept of "sheol" that is found in the Tanakh.

The problem with 2Macc is that it is not considered authoritative by most Protestants because it is not accepted as inspired. Which is odd as most of the Hebrew scripture referred to in the NT is from the Septuagint.

 

[pearl]

the passage you cited only indicates that a living person made a sin offering for people who had been killed in battle.

Yes, prayer for the dead.

 

[pearl]

Nope, not even that. The concept of making a sin offering for the dead (in this case, about four pounds of silver) is what's in there.

Nonetheless, 2Macc 12-45 is the earliest statement of the doctrine that prayers (v42) and sacrifices (v43) for the dead are efficacious. Judas probably intended his purification offering to ward off punishment from the living. The author uses the story to demonstrate belief in the resurrection of the just (7,9, 14, 23, 36), and in the possibility of expiation for the sins of otherwise good people who have died.

 

[Watchmen]

No preferred Bible translation per se, although the versions most used by contemporary Catholics are the NRSV, RSV, Jerusalem Bible and NAB/NABRE (the translation approved for use at Mass in the Dioceses of the United States). A more traditional option would be the Douay-Rheims, which is based upon St. Jerome's Vulgate (the standard Bible translation in Latin used by the medieval Catholic Church).

The only prerequisite for a Catholic Bible is that it include the deuterocanonical books in its Old Testament, since we regard them as being part of sacred scripture (unlike Protestants).

Additionally, Catholics and those interested in the religion should remember that we do not adhere to sola scriptura (Bible alone). Since the Bible is not our sole rule of faith and doctrine (though it is essential), I would encourage you to acquaint yourself with our sacred tradition by reading the Catechism:

Catechism of the Catholic Church

And familiarizing yourself with the Patristics (Church Fathers). A really accessible way of starting out would be to read the inspired selections in this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Inheriting-Wisdom-Readings-Ancient-Christian/dp/1565633547

Inheriting Wisdom: Readings For Today From Ancient Christian Writers

The words of Christian writers such as Tertullian, Jerome, John Chrysostom, Basil of Caesarea, and Clement of Alexandria are organized around familiar, everyday themes. In study, reflection, or devotional reading, use this book to look through their eyes at our issues and, perhaps, find a deepened and sharpened awareness of what it means to choose the Christian life.

Introduced, organized, and translated by Everett Ferguson, these quotes are arranged to allow the ancient authors to speak for themselves. Inheriting Wisdom will refresh modern readers with the rich resources of early Christianity and provide direction and guidance for the twenty-first century.
​

Also, for the same reason, it wouldn't hurt to become further immersed in our mystical tradition, the best beginners books for that:

Practice

https://www.amazon.com/Into-Silent-Land-Christian-Contemplation/dp/0195307607/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521253812&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27:Martin+Laird

Theory

Mysticism Index (the 1911 classic by Evelyn Underhill, entire text free online)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Writings-Christian-Mysticism-Paperback/dp/0812974212

https://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Christian-Mysticism-Pueblo-Books/dp/0814660126





You are free to attend mass wherever you like! So if you prefer the cathedral, then go for it. You would be equally welcome in either.

Thanks. I’m reading NAB now.

 

[Axe Elf]

Nonetheless, 2Macc 12-45 is the earliest statement of the doctrine that prayers (v42) and sacrifices (v43) for the dead are efficacious.

Efficacious? The passage doesn't say anything about whether or not the sin offering for the dead had any effect whatsoever, let alone the desired one.

 

[Watchmen]

For those of you derailing this thread, go somewhere else.

 

[pearl]

That said, I’ve found myself at mass a couple times and it feels like real worship. I really enjoyed it and now I’m curious.

If you want to experience the Catholic Church story, consider attending the Easter Vigil liturgy. It is the holiest night on the liturgical calendar. And its when the catechumens receive Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist. The form dates to the third century. The sacrament of baptism was administered during the night between Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

If you want to experience the Catholic Church story, consider attending the Easter Vigil liturgy. It is the holiest night on the liturgical calendar. And its when the catechumens receive Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist. The form dates to the third century. The sacrament of baptism was administered during the night between Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday.

That ties into the Pauline image of baptism being like dying to sin and being resurrected to a new life.

 

[Watchmen]

If you want to experience the Catholic Church story, consider attending the Easter Vigil liturgy. It is the holiest night on the liturgical calendar. And its when the catechumens receive Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist. The form dates to the third century. The sacrament of baptism was administered during the night between Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday.

Thank you. I understand it can be incredibly crowded. Can non-Catholics attend?

 

[pearl]

Thank you. I understand it can be incredibly crowded. Can non-Catholics attend?

Certainly, a non Catholic just may not receive communion. It is crowded, and late as the liturgy is not allowed to begin before sundown.

 

[pearl]

That ties into the Pauline image of baptism being like dying to sin and being resurrected to a new life.

Yes. There is such a sense of continuity. The Eucharistic Prayers follow the oldest extant text, that of Hippolytus, and reflects the Eucharistic thought of the early 3rd cent.

 

[Dan020350]

-.- the Roman Catholic Church

-.- I go wherever love goes; i follow whereever love follows; if i love myself then only one love finds me; if i love then wherever i go love is found

your poet
Dan020350