Romans 6:23

[Iti oj]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

all the various translations i read all seem to say the same thing that with god/jesus their is no eternal life only death. how then can hell be eternal or even anything more then a metaphor?


surely this also vibes better with a message of a loving god.

 

[abc123kid]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
all the various translations i read all seem to say the same thing that with god/jesus their is no eternal life only death. how then can hell be eternal or even anything more then a metaphor?


surely this also vibes better with a message of a loving god.

Please explain a little more as to what you are trying to ask with this particular scripture. And also if hell is just a metaphor what is it a metaphor alluding to?

 

[Iti oj]

Please explain a little more as to what you are trying to ask with this particular scripture. And also if hell is just a metaphor what is it a metaphor alluding to?

maybe its an allegory to Gods pain in losing us? idk was just doing some speculation after reading this verse.
how do you interpret this verse? what other verse lead to the same conclusion? do any verse contradict this?

 

[Iti oj]

ohh and i obviously meant with out god/Jesus their is death and only with him are we eternal

and like i said this seems to resonate with the large message of the bible.

 

[james2ko]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
all the various translations i read all seem to say the same thing that with god/jesus their is no eternal life only death. how then can hell be eternal or even anything more then a metaphor?

surely this also vibes better with a message of a loving god.

Perhaps the concept of the true biblical hell has been misunderstood.

 

[Iti oj]

Perhaps the concept of the true biblical hell has been misunderstood.

yeah, i guess i promote Sheol/death over hell. is that how you see it/what you meant?

 

[james2ko]

yeah, i guess i promote Sheol/death over hell. is that how you see it/what you meant?

There are three different Greek words used for the one English word "hell" in the NT:

"gehena"- A fiery garbage dump just outside Jerusalem where refuse, including dead animals, were cast into and quickly burned.

"hades"- simply means the grave.

"tartaroo"- A spiritual prison for demonic spirits.

The hell most often alluded to by "gloom and doom" preachers is "gehenna". Those who refuse to repent and continue in their sins will be cast into a type of gehenna fire (lake of fire)-- not for eternal punishing but as a permanent eternal punishment (erased from existence forever). This will only occur after the person has received a fair shot at knowing the only name under heaven for which they could be saved (Act 4:12)

 

[Iti oj]

There are three different Greek words used for the one English word "hell" in the NT:

"gehena"- A fiery garbage dump just outside Jerusalem where refuse, including dead animals, were cast into and quickly burned.

"hades"- simply means the grave.

"tartaroo"- A spiritual prison for demonic spirits.

The hell most often alluded to by "gloom and doom" preachers is "gehenna". Those who refuse to repent and continue in their sins will be cast into a type of gehenna fire (lake of fire)-- not for eternal punishing but as a permanent eternal punishment (erased from existence forever). This will only occur after the person has received a fair shot at knowing the only name under heaven for which they could be saved (Act 4:12)

but gehenna was not forever. It was quick just like you said. also the pit no longer burns yes?

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Because the Wisdom of Sirach says the soul is immortal, doesn't matter that Protestants don't accept that book, they still blindly follow its traditions

 

[Iti oj]

Because the Wisdom of Sirach says the soul is immortal, doesn't matter that Protestants don't accept that book, they still blindly follow its traditions

first of source please and more info..second what God can givith god can takeith.

 

[james2ko]

but gehenna was not forever. It was quick just like you said. also the pit no longer burns yes?

That's correct. Once there is no more matter to burn, the fire will die out. Our loving God will not allow weak, feeble humans made of the dust of the earth to suffer the "live" eternal torment reserved exclusively for satan and his demons (Rev 20:10)

 

[Iti oj]

That's correct. Once there is no more matter to burn, the fire will die out. Our loving God will not allow weak, feeble humans made of the dust of the earth to suffer the "live" eternal torment reserved exclusively for satan and his demons (Rev 20:10)

exactly. do you think gehena could be viewed as a way to purify the soul before hades? are their verses to support this?

 

[Iti oj]

In the New Testament, Gehenna is used by Jesus himself to represent a place of final damnation, “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna]” (Matthew 10.28 KJV bible), "...it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna]" (Matthew 5.29 KJV bible). But even if the word Gehenna is used in addition to Hades in the New Testament, how do we identify it as being something separate or distinct from Hades? Maybe Hades itself is intended as place of final damnation, and Gehenna is simply another incarnation or description of it?

Hades and Gehenna are Hell

 

[james2ko]

exactly. do you think gehena could be viewed as a way to purify the soul before hades? are their verses to support this?

I believe scripture teaches the soul (human spirit) and physical body are interdependent. One needs the other for consicousness and coherency. Akin to a dvd (human spirit) having no inherent functionality without a dvd player (body) and vice versa. James 2:26 alludes to this relationship. At death, a person's body is usually buried in a grave [hades] and the human spirit (recording) will be stored in heaven (Ecc 12:7)and be returned to the individual at their resurrection.

Gehenna is reserved for the "second" death. The one to which there is no resurrection where the physical body, together with the human spirit within it, will be burned up and cease to exist forever. (Mat 10:28)

 

[Iti oj]

I believe scripture teaches the soul (human spirit) and physical body are interdependent. One needs the other for consicousness and coherency. Akin to a dvd (human spirit) having no inherent functionality without a dvd player (body) and vice versa. James 2:26 alludes to this relationship. At death, a person's body is usually buried in a grave [hades] and the human spirit (recording) will be stored in heaven (Ecc 12:7)and be returned to the individual at their resurrection.

Gehenna is reserved for the "second" death. The one to which there is no resurrection where the physical body, together with the human spirit within it, will be burned up and cease to exist forever. (Mat 10:28)

ohh you answered my question and the one i was going to ask next. =D also made both my next points.

 

[Iti oj]

sooo when do the good souls enter heaven immediately, in 3 days after they are in Hades, or after the second death

 

[Iti oj]

stole this from another thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/theological-concepts/129770-man-immortal.html

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For that which befalleth the sons of men, befalleth beasts; ... as the one dieth, so dieth the other. Ecclesiastes 3:19.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

 

[james2ko]

sooo when do the good souls enter heaven immediately, in 3 days after they are in Hades, or after the second death

Immediately after death, all recordings (human spirits), wicked or righteous,are stored in heaven. In the resurrection upon Christ's return, God will reinsert the righteous' human spirits in their new spiritual bodies(1Co 15:51-54) to reign--not in heaven--but right here on the earth! (Rev 20:6)

God will return the rest of the spirits at the physical resurrection for a period of judgment (Rev 20:5; 11-12). Those who accept Christ will be rewarded eternal life and join those from the first resurrection. Those who reject Him will be cast into the lake of fire; be immediately consumed and cease to exist--the second death. (Rev 20:12-15). Precisely the wages Paul said we would earn if we refuse to repent and continue in sin.

 

[james2ko]

stole this from another thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/theological-concepts/129770-man-immortal.html
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For that which befalleth the sons of men, befalleth beasts; ... as the one dieth, so dieth the other. Ecclesiastes 3:19.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

That's right. The dead know nothing. If we had immortal, conscious souls floating around in heaven after death, we would know "something"; we would praise the Lord in heaven; and our thoughts would not perish. It would render these passages contradictions.

 

[Iti oj]

may i ask what denomination you are if you identify with any?