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Ron Paul,The man America needs for President.

Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
You could give up, eh? But in the spirit of your response, I'll give you my constructive criticism. (I live to serve. I'm here to help.)
I diagnose that you're unable to see my point that Democrats continue to support war mongerers because it makes you so uncomfortable.
You seek absolution by listing reasons why people who oppose war will continue supporting politicians who wage it. But those reasons are
rendered moot by the fact that wars continue without much opposition, especially by whomever belongs to the president's political party.
Click to expand...

I diagnose that you're unable to see mball's point that you support Paul's theocratic agenda because it makes you uncomfortable. You seek absolution by dismissing Ron Paul's stated theocratic intentions by believing he's more serious about the "small government" agenda you do agree with than the "theocratic government" agenda you don't agree with.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Alceste said:
I diagnose that you're unable to see mball's point that you support Paul's theocratic agenda because it makes you uncomfortable. You seek absolution by dismissing Ron Paul's stated theocratic intentions by believing he's more serious about the "small government" agenda you do agree with than the "theocratic government" agenda you don't agree with.
Click to expand...
Piffle! You're no therapist.
Hah! Double hah!
You wouldn't even know a DRG from a pierogi.
Having been a landlord to psychotherapists, psychiatrists, analysts & psychologists for many years, I am eminently qualified to render diagnoses.
Anyway, any theocratic bone in his body is decalcified by his adherence to Constitutional law.
But what would tuque wearing frost bitten kerfuffled hoser in Poutinistan know about his record & our Constitution, eh?
 
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Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Alceste said:
What do you like most about him, and what do you like least?
Click to expand...

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I like his position on the wars, and his no-nonsense honesty. What I don't like are most of his other ideas, like about the economy, equal rights, etc.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
mball1297 said:
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I like his position on the wars, and his no-nonsense honesty. What I don't like are most of his other ideas, like about the economy, equal rights, etc.
Click to expand...

He strikes me as honest as well, which I respect. I just can't take Ayn Rand fanatics seriously. It seems they can't deal with complexity or uncertainty. You don't want people like that making any important decisions. Right wing libertarianism has more of the characteristics of a religion than a political movement. Just as all roads lead to a Creator for a YEC, all roads lead to tax cuts and deregulation for a right wing libertarian.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Alceste said:
He strikes me as honest as well, which I respect. I just can't take Ayn Rand fanatics seriously. It seems they can't deal with complexity or uncertainty. You don't want people like that making any important decisions. Right wing libertarianism has more of the characteristics of a religion than a political movement. Just as all roads lead to a Creator for a YEC, all roads lead to tax cuts and deregulation for a right wing libertarian.
Click to expand...
You just suffer from the illusion that you faith is "true".
Libertarianism is neither right, left, nor wrong.
It is just a set of values, as is your leaning towards socialism.

What silly definitions of "libertarian" used by the frost bitten.
In America, it's all about both social & economic liberty.
What you'd call "left libertarianism" is just what we call "liberal" here.
 
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Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
Anyway, any theocratic bone in his body is decalcified by his adherence to Constitutional law.
Click to expand...
Case in point. How do you know? He votes against equal rights for homosexuals and wants to legislate against reproductive choice for women. Those are both pretty unconstitutional positions, given that reproductive choice is a privacy issue already decided by the Supreme Court, and equal protection for homosexuals is likely to be, within the next decade or two. And he wants to amend the constitution for school prayer. Seems his religion is trumping his constitutional bent pretty clearly there.

Seems you're assuming he doesn't really want to do the theocratic things he says he's going to do for no rational reason.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Alceste said:
Case in point. How do you know? He votes against equal rights for homosexuals and wants to legislate against reproductive choice for women. Those are both pretty unconstitutional positions, given that reproductive choice is a privacy issue already decided by the Supreme Court, and equal protection for homosexuals is likely to be, within the next decade or two. And he wants to amend the constitution for school prayer. Seems his religion is trumping his constitutional bent pretty clearly there.

Seems you're assuming he doesn't really want to do the theocratic things he says he's going to do for no rational reason.
Click to expand...
If you'd like me to address specific positions he's taken, it would help if you provide links to each.
I'm just guarding against past assertions which I couldn't find by googling.
(You know how it goes....he might say one thing, but someone re-interprets it to mean something else.
Then I can't find that something else because it doesn't exist.)
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
You just suffer from the illusion that you faith is "true".
Libertarianism is neither right, left, nor wrong.
It is just a set of values, as is your leaning towards socialism.

What silly definitions of "libertarian" used by the frost bitten.
In America, it's all about both social & economic liberty.
What you'd call "left libertarianism" is just what we call "liberal" here.
Click to expand...

Pff - you Americans call everything left of Franco "liberal". I think you're indulging in a bit of wishful thinking re. what the upsurge in right wing libertarianism is "about". The opinion makers for the tea party are dominionist nutters who have been given a taste of power in exchange for advocating the total dismantling of regulations on corporate behavior.

If elected, what do you think they're going to do at work once corporations are satisfied and there are no laws restricting business left to enforce? Twiddle their thumbs?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Alceste said:
Pff - you Americans call everything left of Franco "liberal".
Click to expand...
Oh, you provincial poutine eaters......"liberal" doesn't even mean "left" in Europe.
But regarding American politics, it makes sense to use American definitions.
Generally speaking:
- Liberal = social liberty & economic restriction <---- Sounds Democratic to me.
- Conservative = social restriction & economic liberty
- Libertarian = both social & economic liberty <---- Check the party platform, & you'll see this. (Not "left libertarian" or "right libertarian")
- Neo-conservative = social restriction, big government, foreign adventurism, crony capitalism <---- Sounds Republican to me.
- Classical liberal = Approximately libertarian

I think you're indulging in a bit of wishful thinking re. what the upsurge in right wing libertarianism is "about". The opinion makers for the tea party are dominionist nutters who have been given a taste of power in exchange for advocating the total dismantling of regulations on corporate behavior.
Click to expand...
You're confusing The Tea Party with The Libertarian Party. If the former were libertarian, they'd join the latter.

If elected, what do you think they're going to do at work once corporations are satisfied and there are no laws restricting business left to enforce? Twiddle their thumbs?
Click to expand...
You ought to criticize actual agendas, rather than carefully crafted straw men.
 
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Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
If you'd like me to address specific positions he's taken, it would help if you provide links to each.
I'm just guarding against past assertions which I couldn't find by googling.
(You know how it goes....he might say one thing, but someone re-interprets it to mean something else.
Then I can't find that something else because it doesn't exist.)
Click to expand...

Google "Ron Paul on the issues"
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Alceste said:
Google "Ron Paul on the issues"
Click to expand...
And do your homework for you....no way.
Tis not for me to find a statement or act which you have in mind. (Doesn't turn out well.)
Polarizing issues tend to create false pictures of one in the mind of a foe.
I"m OK discussing actual agendas & events, but not Mballistic re-statements of the original.
 
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Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
And do your homework for you....no way.
Tis not for me to find a statement or act which you have in mind. (Doesn't turn out well.)
Polarizing issues tend to create false pictures of one in the mind of a foe.
I"m OK discussing actual agendas & events, but not Mballistic re-statements of the original.
Click to expand...
I am offering you a shining opportunity to cherry pick your own evidence to rebut Tumbleweed's cherry picked evidence and you turn it down?

And you say you believe in liberty!
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Revoltingest said:
I detect the faint smell of red herring.....& evasion......& french fries with cheese curds & gravy.
Click to expand...

Well, you can look for yourself at his proposed constitutional amendments on school prayer and flag burning. He's happy enough to change whatever he doesn't like about it.

BTW, I gave you the source. I named the website Tumbleweed's claims came from and linked you to his post, which contains a link to his source. I detect a whiff of laziness.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
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Biblestudent_007

Biblestudent_007

Active Member
I'm not quite sure who to vote for.

I would rather vote for my local state representative to represent the critical issue of social security & disability + unemployment benefits.
 
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